n2otoofast4u Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Have not decided on an engine builder or specifics of the engine build... that's why I'm collecting info. The builder will have nothing to do with what components I use. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I'd suggest you just assemble it yourself, and buy all parts off of ebay! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagged155 Posted December 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 My reply was to the comment "The builder will have nothing to do with what components I use. " That statement is one of the dumbest things ive read in a long time... sorry to say, not trying to be rude but its plain stupid..... You need to figure out what kind of motor you want, then talk with a builder and let them tell you what they THINK you should need for that build. Im sure none will nay say anything about billet cases as per your original question except tell you if its needed or not.... hell if you dont know what motor will suite your needs, a builder can point you in a direction and give you multiple options on top of that give them a build budget and they can work around that too.... your going to turn this into a thacker build and end up with a tool steel clutch basket.... All I was saying is I'm trying to learn about individual components so I can have an intelligent conversation with a couple of builders. That's all. Obviously who builds the motor will source and suggest components. Not all builders have the same ideas. I don't buy parts off of eBay nor does my schedule of mechanical skills allow me to assemble a motor myself. A lot of negativity on here... looking forward to the final product. You all will be impressed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2otoofast4u Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 If your mechanical skill set is that weak, I'd suggest you buy a 400EX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Vortex Jr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 I hear what you are saying, but I'm trying to figure out what I want. All purpose bike, trails, MX, and one day dunes. I'm not afraid of too much power, it's all about the power band. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Billit. The Billit cases and cranks are sort of one of those things that when you need it, you know you need it. As you are still new to this, I'd instantly tell you that you won't be needing any of that. It's all for very large motors that make big, big power and to keep one alive is gonna take lots of experience or a lot of money in broken parts to gain the experience. For a fella like you, I'd suggest a 421 Serval or Driveline set up. Either of them will be on a cost effective 4mil crank, 68mm bore and all go in stock cases with modification. Although it would be smart to port match either cylinder to the top case. That's easy stuff though. A 421 serval is gonna be in the 80hp range, carry a really fun torque curve, and allow you to ride all that different terrain you mentioned. You can put it together with out all the porting and ride it for a season, and decide if/what you would wanna change, and have a builder tweak it to your liking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hell, keep it cheap and build a 4mm stock cylinder on pump gas. Super reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagged155 Posted December 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hell, keep it cheap and build a 4mm stock cylinder on pump gas. Super reliable. Thanks for the clear advice. I was thinking of running race due to low quality of fuel today. A lot of people have told me the motor will be more reliable running a mild race gas. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Thanks for the clear advice. I was thinking of running race due to low quality of fuel today. A lot of people have told me the motor will be more reliable running a mild race gas. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No. Race gas motors are designed to combust with a more violent explosion in the combustion chamber. Whether it's done with timing, additional compression, or a combo of both is up to the guy building the motor. A race gas motor is fun, and can certainly be reliable but a pump gas motor is gonna carry a bit more reliability and be far less stressful on parts. If your friends are just telling you to burn race gas, that's just nonsense. Running race gas in a motor not designed to run it will leave you with an incomplete burn. It won't light properly and will actually hinder performance. Not sure why people seem to think race gas just makes a better bang in any ol motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillybuilt Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Thanks for the clear advice. I was thinking of running race due to low quality of fuel today. A lot of people have told me the motor will be more reliable running a mild race gas. If you can get a fuel free of ethanol to not exceed 100 octane, you will be fine. Like trickedcarbine said, you won't get a complete burn. Waste of money and performance. All around cons in that scenario. The billet cases and transmission components as many have said, are for people in a whole different ballgame. I build performance oriented cars for people... Every so often, I get a customer that says they need a dual disc clutch, billet block, "unbreakable" axles, dogbox transmission, and when I tell them the same thing (like everyone is attempting to tell you) and they stick to their guns. The same guys would ask me why I went so much faster. It's simple, my dollars worked harder (and smarter). Nobody is trying to be negative towards you. They just want you to understand that the billet block and transmission gears are basically money wasted for your setup. It's all geared to help you make a smarter choice. Good luck with your build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTmachining Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Race gas > pump gas. Real tlk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheerider11 Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Race gas > pump gas. Real tlkThis is true. But I only run pump. Cost way to much to play around and burn 100 bucks in fuel for just the bike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagged155 Posted December 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 No. Race gas motors are designed to combust with a more violent explosion in the combustion chamber. Whether it's done with timing, additional compression, or a combo of both is up to the guy building the motor. A race gas motor is fun, and can certainly be reliable but a pump gas motor is gonna carry a bit more reliability and be far less stressful on parts. If your friends are just telling you to burn race gas, that's just nonsense. Running race gas in a motor not designed to run it will leave you with an incomplete burn. It won't light properly and will actually hinder performance. Not sure why people seem to think race gas just makes a better bang in any ol motor. I agree, I the motor will be set up specifically for race gas if I go that route. Fuel quality is only going to get worse in the future I fear Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guns4children Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 I agree, I the motor will be set up specifically for race gas if I go that route. Fuel quality is only going to get worse in the future I fear Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You'll be on your 3rd motor before the future gets here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdgriff Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 I had F.A.S.T. Build me a 4mil serval a few years back, I had over 800 hours and LOTS of miles on that motor. It was on pump gas and took serious abuse. Only reason I got rid of it was because it was low on compression and I decided on a 10 serval. The serval is a badass motor, I definitely had more fun with the 10mil but the life of the 4mil was way longer. I enjoyed the 4mil stock cylinder I had but the serval was a lot more fun. I personally won't do a 4mil stock cyl again Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaymentPlan Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 I had F.A.S.T. Build me a 4mil serval a few years back, I had over 800 hours and LOTS of miles on that motor. It was on pump gas and took serious abuse. Only reason I got rid of it was because it was low on compression and I decided on a 10 serval. The serval is a badass motor, I definitely had more fun with the 10mil but the life of the 4mil was way longer. I enjoyed the 4mil stock cylinder I had but the serval was a lot more fun. I personally won't do a 4mil stock cyl again Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Can you elaborate why you wouldnt do a 4mil stock cyl? Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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