locogato11283 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 OK, now that I'm home from work and can type easier, I am going to break this down for everyone. The ATV drag scene is tiny. It amounts for about 1% of all ATV related sales. It is not a multi-million dollar industry like F1 racing, nor do we have billion dollar testing facilities, corporate sponsored race teams, etc.. When an ATV customer wants a part, they call and have it made. Who does the testing? The CUSTOMER does. If it fails, improvements are made. If it works, everyone else copies it. This is how our race scene works. Now, with that said, there are only a handful of guys out there spending money to BUILD and TEST products. These are the guys who are taking their own money and time and figuring out whether or not parts will work. THESE are the people you should be listening to, not some armchair jockey that keeps rambling about F1 or automotive racing. I don't doubt Whitbread's fab skills one bit. I believe he can build awesome stuff, but until he has built the amount of bikes me or JT has, and spent the money and time doing the testing, his experience is little to none. To expand on that, I have a pretty extensive bike history, from trail bikes to hillclimb to drag. I've gone from OEM to Hybrid to OEM modified to full chassis bikes. I have had chassis built and have also modded my own (Hybrid and OEM modified). This is REAL world testing and experience. NO, I have not raced TT or built a bike for it, but I'm pretty fucking sure that I can tell Tricked where he needs to start as far as chassis goes and feel pretty confident I am steering him in the right direction. At that point, Tricked will need to fine tune his bike because he knows way more about TT than any of us do. Obviously this is a collective effort where guys like me and JT are trying to help save him time and money. HMFIC out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTmachining Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 ^^on point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeMachining Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 OK, now that I'm home from work and can type easier, I am going to break this down for everyone. The ATV drag scene is tiny. It amounts for about 1% of all ATV related sales. It is not a multi-million dollar industry like F1 racing, nor do we have billion dollar testing facilities, corporate sponsored race teams, etc.. When an ATV customer wants a part, they call and have it made. Who does the testing? The CUSTOMER does. If it fails, improvements are made. If it works, everyone else copies it. This is how our race scene works. Now, with that said, there are only a handful of guys out there spending money to BUILD and TEST products. These are the guys who are taking their own money and time and figuring out whether or not parts will work. THESE are the people you should be listening to, not some armchair jockey that keeps rambling about F1 or automotive racing. I don't doubt Whitbread's fab skills one bit. I believe he can build awesome stuff, but until he has built the amount of bikes me or JT has, and spent the money and time doing the testing, his experience is little to none. To expand on that, I have a pretty extensive bike history, from trail bikes to hillclimb to drag. I've gone from OEM to Hybrid to OEM modified to full chassis bikes. I have had chassis built and have also modded my own (Hybrid and OEM modified). This is REAL world testing and experience. NO, I have not raced TT or built a bike for it, but I'm pretty fucking sure that I can tell Tricked where he needs to start as far as chassis goes and feel pretty confident I am steering him in the right direction. At that point, Tricked will need to fine tune his bike because he knows way more about TT than any of us do. Obviously this is a collective effort where guys like me and JT are trying to help save him time and money. HMFIC out. I agree with you Tyler, but dont forget you did it with no science. I dont say that in a mean way, it's just a fact and when we try to put science, we got comments about dumb engineer... It's not very productive. When i see JT shaving weight from different parts, i always wonder how i would do it with FEA analysys as background and what would be the result compare to his work. That would be a good starting point for a collaboration, and that way i could 'help' the Banshee World. But, are you guys are interested in that? That's the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 I agree with you Tyler, but dont forget you did it with no science. I dont say that in a mean way, it's just a fact and when we try to put science, we got comments about dumb engineer... It's not very productive. When i see JT shaving weight from different parts, i always wonder how i would do it with FEA analysys as background and what would be the result compare to his work. That would be a good starting point for a collaboration, and that way i could 'help' the Banshee World. But, are you guys are interested in that? That's the question. I agree, there should be more "science" behind it, but the reality is there is no money for that. We don't have the time or money to build stuff and test it in a factory or somewhere with controlled conditions. Are you going to spend your own money to design, build and test these products? I'm guessing no, especially with the price of titanium and CF parts. That's where the end user comes into play. These guys have money and are ready to spend it. That's how it gets tested. Is that the correct way? Probably not, but until we get some huge corporate sponsors or this sport gets a HUGE increase in rider participation, that's just how it has to be. And that's why guys with experience are so valuable to this sport, whether it's drag racing or MX or trail riding. These guys are doing the testing for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 But it sounds like trick is going to spend his own money and time into cf parts. So, why are people no encouraging and helping with this instead of telling him he is wasting his money? Because he is wasting his money. There's no reason to use CF. By the time you add aluminum inserts in the end of CF, there's no weight savings over titanium or aluminum from what I have seen. Plus, it's not nearly as easy to work with and there aren't nearly as many guys out there working with it, whereas titanium is pretty proven and there are quite a few guys working with it. Tricked can do whatever he wants, but in my pretty experienced opinion, I'd say go with a chromoly chassis, titanium or chromoly arms, stem and subframe. That should get him a lightweight bike that will hold up to what he wants to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheerider11 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Wait. So a guy that builds chassis has no experience? Just because he hasn't done a specific bike? Are you guys fucking serious? JT and Tyler have each other's heads so far up one another's ass I'm surprised there able to type. so the first set of cylinders your almighty redline did should of never happened because he had no prior banshee experience. But people gave him a shot. A guy that builds chassis for anything has more of an understanding then you 2. He knows what flex/stress/load/forces are applied at what point and how much and anything else. It doesn't take much to look at something long enough to get a good idea. But you 2 just want to stroke each other off. I don't know who's head is bigger JT or Tyler. You 2 know zero about TT. Whitbread does. So his knowledge out weighs yours. You 2 had chassis built. He's built from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Wait. So a guy that builds chassis has no experience? Just because he hasn't done a specific bike? Are you guys fucking serious? JT and Tyler have each other's heads so far up one another's ass I'm surprised there able to type. so the first set of cylinders your almighty redline did should of never happened because he had no prior banshee experience. But people gave him a shot. A guy that builds chassis for anything has more of an understanding then you 2. He knows what flex/stress/load/forces are applied at what point and how much and anything else. It doesn't take much to look at something long enough to get a good idea. But you 2 just want to stroke each other off. I don't know who's head is bigger JT or Tyler. You 2 know zero about TT. Whitbread does. So his knowledge out weighs yours. You 2 had chassis built. He's built from scratch. Whitbreak built a TT chassis? Did I miss this? Picture? I think your reading comprehension is lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Direct quote from Whitbread: "Since you have not built a lightweight TT bike before either" You might as well stay out of this since you can't read worth a shizzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeMachining Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 But it sounds like trick is going to spend his own money and time into cf parts. So, why are people no encouraging and helping with this instead of telling him he is wasting his money?I will cnc what ever he want for the price of the shipping, that's my contribution so far. Be ready for this Fall, you will have some work to do on the rear suspension ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 I will cnc what ever he want for the price of the shipping, that's my contribution so far. Be ready for this Fall, you will have some work to do on the rear suspension ;-) It's too bad you aren't in Merica. We could make some shit and try it out. I think shipping gets expensive on bigger parts from Canuckistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheerider11 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Direct quote from Whitbread: "Since you have not built a lightweight TT bike before either" You might as well stay out of this since you can't read worth a shizzle. I said he's built "chassis" Never specified what kind. Read bro. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeMachining Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 It's too bad you aren't in Merica. We could make some shit and try it out. I think shipping gets expensive on bigger parts from Canuckistan.Under 1 kilos, it's about 15$. Not that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 I said he's built "chassis" Never specified what kind. Read bro. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Read post above and then go study up on reading comprehension. He clearly states that he hasn't built one. Fucking idiot. Go play in the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Under 1 kilos, it's about 15$. Not that bad. Oh that's not bad. There you go Tricked.. CNC at your disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheerider11 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Read post above and then go study up on reading comprehension. He clearly states that he hasn't built one. Fucking idiot. Go play in the street. He's built chassis for f1 and others. I never said banshee. You like to place words to make you look right. Read post above and then go study up on reading comprehension. He clearly states that he hasn't built one. Fucking idiot. Go play in the street. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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