fixitrod Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 makes me believe that your a shady mechanic or someone who half asses shit. When I said to visulize the parts and how they work,I was speaking in general,not at you.This goes for anything,not just the clutch system.It was hard for me to visualize it with "smoke"on the brain." I'll pm you about the first part. If you were around on the old site, you'd know what happen. The second part looked like you were calling boonman an idiot and I don't appreciate that. He is well respected here and doesn't need that. I will pm you because this is not a public disagreement... It's getting personal. I do want to appologize if I took your visualize comment very wrong. I'm sure you will see I am not a shady mechanic and we will learn from each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Boonman it was not wearing off but the color of the metal showed the heat treated ends were heated enough to anneal the shaft. On the end where the ball was it had started to dimple from contact with the ball. If you get a new throw out rod compare the color with one that has gotten hot (almost to the point of being welded together with the ball) and you will see a color difference. Do you have any welding experience boonman? This I would understand then. I can see that. And yes, I have PLENTY of welding experience, and training. Now, to address some other things I found in here, (I haven't checked this thread in a couple days now..) is that Fixitrod, Thanks for catchin my back, but also, the spring on the clutch engagement lever actually pulls the lever AWAY from the rod. Thus, taking pressure off of it. This is why free play is critical. if there is no free play, than the spring and the whole system basically won't work as designed. I am sure the ball spins while you are moving, but there is little to no pressure that is supposed to be applied to it at that time. Slipping the clutch on a start should NOT weld the ball to the rod. Coasting with the clutch in will. Sitting there revving the shit out of the motor with the clutch pulled in while you are STOPPED should NOT weld the ball. yes night rider is 100% correct they spin because your crank is still spinnning the crank is conected to the gear on the back of the clutch by a gear so you can still weld it togeather at idle if you kept revving her up like you do in a dragg race jethro, i am sorry, but i just don't agree with this statement. The crank is spinning the outside of the clutch. the 'fingers" if you will. this moves the fibers. The inner hub, with the steel plates, is what is connected to the tranny. The clutch engagement rod goes through this shaft. If you are not moving, the pressure plate isn't either. The pressure plate is what contacts the ball, as has been mentioned earlier. Even if your clutch basket is whooped, and looks like the elusive sharks teeth, and you have to stand on the rear brake, and give her WOT to keep it running when you put it in gear, you will still not weld the ball. There is no spinning action on it. The only time that inner hub moves, is when the bike does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Just had another quick thought, if you were sitting there with your bike in neutral, and the clutch pulled in, the pressure plate, and tranny will most likely be spinning. So, moral of that is that you should be in gear while standing still, with the clutch pulled in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixitrod Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 the spring on the clutch engagement lever actually pulls the lever AWAY from the rod. Thus, taking pressure off of it. This is why free play is critical. if there is no free play, than the spring and the whole system basically won't work as designed. I am sure the ball spins while you are moving, but there is little to no pressure that is supposed to be applied to it at that time. YOu know, I debated that with my self after I said it. What keep making me think there was tension on it is the fact you can put free play in the cable. What does the push rod assembly rest against with the force of the spring. I didn't pay to close attention to that. I had it apart when I did my crank but didn't look real good. So basically, what keeps tension on the assembly and keeps it on it's alignment mark if the cable has slack in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 So basically, what keeps tension on the assembly and keeps it on it's alignment mark if the cable has slack in it? Your finger. The arrows on the case are not for free play. You are supposed to push lightly enough with your finger to take up the free play that the spring provides. (By keeping the arm away from the rod) They are to adjust the proper amount of clutch arm throw. it has to be in the right plane of the arc of movement to get the correct pull. It only moves a certain amount with resppect to the clutch lever pull. You see, once you set the arm arrow to the case arrow, and you set your free play, the arrows will no longer line up. Or rather, they shouldn't. edit: Also, if the spring pushed the arm against the rod and ball assembly, there would be constant pressure on the ball against the pressure plate. Also, the reason there is free play, is because the ball MUST be de-pressurized from the pressure plate. Otherwise, the thing would weld itself to the rod all the time. Also, if the spring worked that way, what would pull the lever back to full extension when you released the lever? You would have virtually no way to check the free play.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrider Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Where exactly did I say Boonman was an idiot?And apologies to him if I did. I stated I was "high" when I first looked at this thread,but I don't recall calling anyone an idiot. I found the irony funny I guess.Look at it from this perspective Fixitrod,I don't know you from a hole in the ground. You give me advice on how a clutch operates and why.Then you proceed to tell me that your rippen your clutch apart on a weekly basis to repair it.(exaggerate) I don't know you or your story,All I can see from this perspective is someone who knows exactly whats wrong,but the answers get scrambled before they get to the hands. This was not a personal attack on you by any means.Just a smart ass comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixitrod Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Got it... and it's done. I took the comment wrong and also thought you were joking about being high...my mistake.. And I did exaggerate. Boonman, the clutch springs bring the handle back to position. So, you're saying the marks don't line up when the cable has free play. I'll have to look tonight when I get home. I'm surely not saying your wrong, I just need to see it to understand. It's one of those little things that will erk you until it's sunk in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 I hear ya. But, remember this, the marks are only used to set the arm in the correct position to get maximum engagement/disengagement throw from the lever. Being that the cable is not ran to the arm like a twist throttle is in the housing, it moves on an arc, and therefore, needs to be put in a specific spot. Thik of it like this, what if you moved the arm , in it's arc, towards the cable housing mounting point on the case. Would you get maximum movement out of the lever? No. Because the arm would run out of movement. you use the arrows to set the position, because of varying clutch disc thickness. That's why there is an adjustment on the screw in the pressure plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixitrod Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Yeah, I completly understand the adjustment, I just want to see which way the little spring pulls the clutch push rod. Toward the clutch or away from it. Must be away from it from what your saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 the clutch springs bring the handle back to position Also, the clutch springs (in the pressure plate) can only return the handle so far. In order to utilize the free play that you are supposed to have in the handle, there must be something to take the pressure of the engagement arm. What if you held the clutch lever taught while riding down a straight. not enough to disengage it, but enough to 'take the free play out" of it. This would be bad. It would be forcing the ball and rod to go against the now moving pressure plate... Also, look which side the spring is mounted on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixitrod Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 I looked at it and understand that part now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLET~BOY Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 ok i'm way to lasy to read all your post but i swear my presure plate spins even with the clutch pulled in i will have to look at it again when my bike is back togeather mabey couse it was in nutral but who know i will jsut have to look for my self soem time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 it was in nutral That's why. Stop being so damned lazy, and read the post you lazy @#$%^&*!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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