KEVPOPPAPUMP Posted December 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Neither, I lucked out and the ball freed itself after about 10-20 seconds of trying to pull the clutch in..... I tried to move the clutch arm but that thing was welded stuck. At least I was able to drive back to camp shifting with no clutch. It would've been a sad site seeing my Banshee getting towed by a Sea Doo (DS650 Baja). I will post a pic of my clutch arm that is burnt and worn to hell once I get the rod and ball out. The 3 parts together should make a horrid pic. Should be up next Sunday or maybe even this Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 rolling down olds with the clutch pulled in? thats what ive allways seen weld the bearing is hauling ass down hill, clutch in, the lower the gear the faster it smokes...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDD Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 I thought I mentioned something about replacing the throwout rod and ball in your other post about your clutch problems. Once you have heated that rod up it loses it's heat treatment/temper. The more you rev your bike with the clutch engaged the more your going to make your chances of this happening to you a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcaf29 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Give Dynoedge a call. You can get the pancake bearing mod for like $38 i think. You do have to machine the slider which is cheap and can be done at any machine shop and you then drill out the hole in the pressure plate. Dynoedge will tell you how to do it. I have the kit but have yet to install it cause I got a pretty new Hinson pressure plate i'm afraid to drill a hole in just yet. I also don't use my clutch that often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 It can also happen from too little oil in the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeBruce Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Same thing happened to me at Buttercup on T weekend. I can't even get the clutch rod out, it is stuck. Does anyone know of other options rather than a stock rod and ball replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEVPOPPAPUMP Posted December 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 I special ordered the pancake bearing and washer kit from Vito's. It cost $8 and should be here next Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Kev, curious are you running the 8\7 plate clutch setup ?? BansheeBruce, there's a few options. The pancake bearing solution is the most common fix. Dynoedge.com, Grand River Racing and Vitos sells a kit. The ceramic ball is another option, but I dont know where to buy those. Boonman wrote: "It can also happen from too little oil in the case." Yea I beleive that also. Your supposed to put something like 1.7 quarts of oil in the case, but I put a full 2 quarts in her to help lube up that ball and shaft better. Oil gets inside the front gear cluster where the ball\shaft live, via hole on the stator side end of the gear clusters shaft. So if your oil level is just a tad higher, its better for the ball\shaft and there's no downfall to using 2 full quarts of oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEVPOPPAPUMP Posted December 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Kev, curious are you running the 8\7 plate clutch setup ?? BansheeBruce, there's a few options. The pancake bearing solution is the most common fix. Dynoedge.com, Grand River Racing and Vitos sells a kit. The ceramic ball is another option, but I dont know where to buy those. Boonman wrote: "It can also happen from too little oil in the case." Yea I beleive that also. Your supposed to put something like 1.7 quarts of oil in the case, but I put a full 2 quarts in her to help lube up that ball and shaft better. Oil gets inside the front gear cluster where the ball\shaft live, via hole on the stator side end of the gear clusters shaft. So if your oil level is just a tad higher, its better for the ball\shaft and there's no downfall to using 2 full quarts of oil. I am running the 8 plate EBC Kevlar Racer EP clutch setup. It seems as though the steel plates are thinner than stock specifications to make up for the extra friction plate. When I put only 7 plates on there, the pressure plate was too far into the basket or at least more than the pics in the Clymers showed. The clutch arm arrows seemed to adjust just fine with the 8 Plates so thats what I went with. I use about 1.8 quarts of ATF Type F in the trannie. Maybe now I'll start using 2 quarts. The guys I ride with told me to run stock plates with the o-rings and Barnette springs. I've already spent $235 on 2 clutches in 1 month so I'm not to keen on spending more on another clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintoxicated Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 this might be a dumb answer but why not try another type of oil while your at it? Like golden spectro formulated for 2-stroke trannys? I used to pull my clutch in down olds all the time before I had my cases split and SDD pointed out the heat treatment was worn off. Won't do that anymore, but im also guilty of reving up and poping the clutch in 2nd gear at the drags. Maybe im just using good oil or something I dunno, but i have never even toasted the stock clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 pointed out the heat treatment was worn off That in itself is a funny statement. Unless he gave it a spark test, or he is a fantastic metallurgist, he really can't say anything about heat treatment. I would like to know how you "wear off" a heat treatment. I have heard of distempering, but never wearing off? Very odd. Was there accelerated wear on the ball and/or shaft? This could point out that the metal was softening up, and losing it's case hardness..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDD Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Boonman it was not wearing off but the color of the metal showed the heat treated ends were heated enough to anneal the shaft. On the end where the ball was it had started to dimple from contact with the ball. If you get a new throw out rod compare the color with one that has gotten hot (almost to the point of being welded together with the ball) and you will see a color difference. Do you have any welding experience boonman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixitrod Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Do you have any welding experience boonman? Have you seen his truck or snowmoshee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeBruce Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Hey Meat, Thanks for the info. My local shop says that since the screw adjuster, ball and rod are stuck inside the engine, that the best way to fix is to take the engine apart (of couse rebuild the motor etc...) Otherwise, it can be ground out, but metal shavings would get inside of the motor. They also recommended a "clutch saver" to fix the problem so it would never happen again. Does anyone know if this is good advice? Thanks BansheeBruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrider Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Actually Banchetta,revving the clutch when its fully disengaged is better than partial engagement.(corrected) When you disengage the clutch(pulling the lever back)Your forcing the shift rod to push against the ball to push against the cup that forces the springs and releases the presure. Inside that cup is the special shaped screw that we use to adjust our clutches. When you squeeze the lever and disengage the clutch,all of the springs pressure is forced upon the ball,rod and cup.At this time there is no clearnce betwwen these parts,yet there trying to work as a bearing and allow the engine to freewheel from the tranny.So what will happen if you partially engage your clutch in for extemely long periods of time and or revv it,well its not hard to figure out is it. The only time the oil has a chance to get inbetwwen these surfaces is when you release the lever and engage the clutch.That is also why clutch freeplay is important.It doesn't need a ton of oil,but think about what kind,what weight you run,how often you change etc.How long would anything last METAL to METAL? Riding or riding out a clutch will mainly damage the ball and plates(corrected) Thanks to Mcaf,causing them to swell from heat..Believe it or not,there is more pressure&heat on the ball&rod when the clutch is partially engaged.banchetta,I too have erratic clutch behavior after quite a few hard runs,but I think the stock clutch just can't hang. I know it may be hard to understand,but look at a breakdown of a clutch,look at the parts,visualize what they do,how they move and see how they are effected.Its the only true way you'll ever understand why it does what it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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