blowit Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 We have done a lot of work in this sector and were lightly considering a sort of garage or small shop model so more places can test safely and get real data to help in tuning. Just curious how many here might consider something like that? Builders? Racers? What I would mostly target is a brake dyno because I believe strongly in their ability over an inertial dyno. WIth many bikes and UTVs making big power, it is not always practical to blast down the road and even then, you might not know if you made an improvement until you get to the track. I don't yet know how much we could offer one for but will examine that. From my experiences in dealerships, IMO every shop should have one because it allows testing of repairs and performance adders in a safe controlled environment. I know we cannot offer anything of real value for say 500 bucks but I know we can do it for less than 30 grand too. Thoughts? Brandon Mull Engineering 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1JUANstunna Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Charge mine to Tyler Clark Photography. I'll forward my shipping address at a later date. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett131 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 He said less than 30 grand, that's nowhere near 205k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUILDER Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I do a large amount of tuning and engine building in my shop at home and would love to be able to have a dyno to tune them on but for the cost of one I can make a hell of a lot of trips down to Redline and pay Cam to run them. Would be awesome to have one but serious cash to fork out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Charge mine to Tyler Clark Photography. I'll forward my shipping address at a later date. LOL, is there a charge account over there I can apply to? I need to fill my Christmas list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1JUANstunna Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 LOL, is there a charge account over there I can apply to? I need to fill my Christmas list. Just call Redline and charge it under the same account for all your banshee needs. lol. That's what I do. A dyno in the garage would be cool though if it was affordable and had the work to support it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Mostly just examining ways to make a system affordable. I don't believe people need all the creature features like some flashy PC interface. Just need to get the data. Primarily looking at safety vs costs. I have seen even the best dynos operated foolishly so..... Do agree though, unless you understand the data, it can be somewhat useless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I want one. You're talking about designing and building one? Would it be good up to 200HP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yes, what we discussed was possibly a sort of "collapsing" unit or otherwise have a storage function so they don't eat up so much space. The only issues so far is we would have to rethink the typical tire roller configuration. Basically from the ground up, designing something low profile. As far as power, in designing these systems, torque is what is the most important, but yes 200HP should not be an issue. RPM is where we start looking at safety issues. I really don't like seeing Dynos flying at 200MPH. It is not necessary for tuning. Again, all just in a brainstorm moment right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinklerman Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 WOW JUST IMAGINE HOW MUCH COULD BE ADVANCED IN 2/4-STROKE SMALL ENGIINE TECH IF MORE PEOPLE HAD ACESS TO SORT BUILD COMBO'S CAN'T AFFORD ONE BUY OR BARROW ONE BUT LIKE WHERE YOUR HEAD IS AT GOOD LUCK YOU CAN DO ITImagine how much grammar and punctuation could be advanced if people payed attention in school. .... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadbeat Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 there was a new atv Dynojet unit for sale here last year for 25k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Yes, what we discussed was possibly a sort of "collapsing" unit or otherwise have a storage function so they don't eat up so much space. The only issues so far is we would have to rethink the typical tire roller configuration. Basically from the ground up, designing something low profile. As far as power, in designing these systems, torque is what is the most important, but yes 200HP should not be an issue. RPM is where we start looking at safety issues. I really don't like seeing Dynos flying at 200MPH. It is not necessary for tuning. Again, all just in a brainstorm moment right now. Safety, eh... Brings a story to mind. I let a guy dyno my bike, they were reckless with the sniffer probe and somehow the tire got ahold of the wire and yanked it out of the silencer and just flailed around like an 80's metal hair due on stage. Think of all the ways to Idiot proof every single component possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper06 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Let's talk it's something I've been looking for on the low for a while , I need one badly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted March 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I am really not yet sure of the needs of others, whether price strictly influences the need or if there are other factors. As stated, we have some ways to reduce the cost but as you reduce cost, you reduce some of the special features. I woul honestly like to kick one out less than $10k! That might take some work though. Personally, if I have the option, I choose an engine dyno over a chassis dyno every time! It is 10X easier to make adjustments and you can literally tear an engine down on the dyno, make changes, and run again in short order. O2 sense? 4 gas? multiple tach channels? etc, etc. The electronics and software would end up as 70% of the build. Unfortunately, we cannot just provide the hardware to use with some generic software because this is a full on DAQ system with advanced filtering and tuning to ensure it is accurate. HOWEVER, I say accurate loosely because there are a LOT of fudge factors and I have never directly associated exact BMEP values with track performance. However, you see a graph, you have an idea that it produces about 90HP but you know it is fat. Lean it down and overlay that graph. Did the graph get flatter with linear improvement? Did it sign off earlier in the rpm band? What if we turn up the ignition, how did it react? I can tell you this being around dyno tuning a long time, sometimes that graph is all you need. You start leaning too much on O2, 4 gas, etc, and you can end up leaving ponies on the dyno! Why? Well, there are still a LOT of guys that try to use inertial dynos for tuning and I just don't believe in it. Why? Because they typically are only used at WOT and come up slowly. That engine might rev 10X faster on the track which can affect lots of things. With a brake system, I am able to test to a stall at anywhere from 0-100% throttle. I can run simulation for cruising loads calculated off frictional losses which might look totally different when those same settings get under load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I am really not yet sure of the needs of others, whether price strictly influences the need or if there are other factors. As stated, we have some ways to reduce the cost but as you reduce cost, you reduce some of the special features. I woul honestly like to kick one out less than $10k! That might take some work though. Personally, if I have the option, I choose an engine dyno over a chassis dyno every time! It is 10X easier to make adjustments and you can literally tear an engine down on the dyno, make changes, and run again in short order. O2 sense? 4 gas? multiple tach channels? etc, etc. The electronics and software would end up as 70% of the build. Unfortunately, we cannot just provide the hardware to use with some generic software because this is a full on DAQ system with advanced filtering and tuning to ensure it is accurate. HOWEVER, I say accurate loosely because there are a LOT of fudge factors and I have never directly associated exact BMEP values with track performance. However, you see a graph, you have an idea that it produces about 90HP but you know it is fat. Lean it down and overlay that graph. Did the graph get flatter with linear improvement? Did it sign off earlier in the rpm band? What if we turn up the ignition, how did it react? I can tell you this being around dyno tuning a long time, sometimes that graph is all you need. You start leaning too much on O2, 4 gas, etc, and you can end up leaving ponies on the dyno! Why? Well, there are still a LOT of guys that try to use inertial dynos for tuning and I just don't believe in it. Why? Because they typically are only used at WOT and come up slowly. That engine might rev 10X faster on the track which can affect lots of things. With a brake system, I am able to test to a stall at anywhere from 0-100% throttle. I can run simulation for cruising loads calculated off frictional losses which might look totally different when those same settings get under load. All the engine dynos I've personally seen, (only about 4-5) are all tucked in to corners collecting dust. In turn, those are all people who have chassis dynos and they choose to flog those instead. Personally, if a bike comes in just needing a few tweaks, you have to take it all apart and assemble it on the stand, test, then out it all back together in the frame. Just not interested in paying less to work more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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