new to the banshee world... some thoughts and Q's

[locogato11283]

Nah, IPS said it needed 400 mains, even though it didn't blow up, had no detonation and was beating 4mm bikes.

 

Cam is being extra nice as far as I'm concerned. I'd be really getting into detail about Frank's "issues."

 

And where is Windy?! He seems to be totally missing from this post even though we all know he was involved and likely orchestrated the whole thing. It's definitely no coincidence that Windy and Frank are buddies and Windy sucks more dick at IPS than Jenna Jameson in a Girls Gag Wild video.

[trickedcarbine]

Thought windy was on vacation?

[locogato11283]

Thought windy was on vacation?

Don't worry about minor details like that. He was absent far before that.

[Frankthetank]

Sorry, I was gone riding for a few days and don't check posts on here. Thanks Cam for addressing some of the issues that I had. Yes there was certain things I was disappointed with ( shift detent spring, jetting, having to spend money on a different head setup for temperature reasons, information about my motor as far as specs) and thanks for addressing those. It was very frustrating when I would try to drag race and would hit false N at a very high rpm and then hear the trans slam into gear. At that point I was worried that I would do damage to the motor having it hit high rpms many times in the course of the day. Not to mention losing those races. Which didn't have me happy. After ironing out these issues I do have a solid, hassle free bike that I can ride anywhere.  

 

When going about the build on this bike, I wanted a very solid 4 mil bike that could be very user friendly. Before banshees I was heavily involve with stand up jet skiis and spent lots of my riding time being a weekend mechanic to keep my ski running the way I wanted it to. That's why I sought out John. John is very passionate and knowledgeable when it comes to banshees. John's response to me when I said that I wanted a strong 4 mil build that was user friendly was Redline without hesitation. John recommended that I call Cam and pick his brain about the details and timeline. I did and was happy about what I heard and sent my motor out to him. At the time Cam had told me that it would be about a month turnaround time. I was happy to hear that seeing that I wanted to make a ride at the Badlands and show off the new motor. The timeline ended up being a month longer than expected, which bummed me out but I know Cam is a busy guy and I chalked that off to him being good at what he does and being busy. I received the motor, put it in and set everything up the way that I wanted. The carbs that I had sent with my motor were not the stock carbs from the bike but a different set. I told Cam that I hadn't had time to look over the carbs and if they don't work then just use a pair of stock carbs that he had. The carbs I sent him were junk, but he said that he was able to dyno with them anyway which when I received them back I was wondering how he got the motor to run off of them at all but hey I'm not an engine builder or have the expertise that Cam has. 

 

At this point I hadn't even tried to start the bike, I called up John and asked if I could have him help me get this bike dialed in. Meaning that I had completely changed almost everything on the bike, (swingarm, carrier, chain, sprockets, bars, grips, tors eliminated, etc ) because I see John's bikes and I am very impressed with them. I also called up Jay at IPS and asked if I could spend sometime on the dyno and have him look over the work that I did to the bike. Meaning carbs, tors elimation kit, float levels, pressurize the carbs and so forth. He said sure. We dynod it exactly the way it came from Cam. I put all of the recommended settings that Cam said in my good carbs. Jay was impressed with the motor and said that Cam did a solid build but was wondering about the carb settings. So I told him what it had and we adjusted it. To which Cam did note that he had made a mistake with the jetting. We ran about 15 passes or so and got it to where the jetting was safe for what I wanted it. THAT WAS WHERE I WANTED IT. So yes I did lose a little hp, but Remember I said that I wanted a user friendly motor, so Jay did it to what I wanted. I wanted to be able to adjust the air screw for any changes that I wanted to make and save the any major jetting to when I was at home.  Besides that I wanted the jetting to be fat to put me at ease about blowing up a new motor that I spent money on. Jay did mention that I was very fat on my jetting but it was a safe motor, not saying that it wasn't safe before. But safe for me because I am still learning to feel and tune the bike out. Since then I have lowered my mains from 400 down to 380 and might consider going further down. Possibly to 370 mains. I ride in a wide range of temps and humidity as well as types of riding. Meaning, tight trails, wide open trails and yes duning.

 

So, In no way am I trying to pit one builder vs another. Jay and John both made mention that they were impressed with my bikes performance.  That's why I never mentioned names or anything like that. People made assumptions and guesses as to how everything shook down which they were close to the truth but not all the way there and then they like to interject their opinions. If people don't know the truth to things, they shouldn't assume. I just can't believe that we got to this point. Yes I was wrong about my comment about Cam starting with Matt Shearer which I did apologize for, but some people on here are just Haters. In conclusion, for me it makes more sense to seek Jay out and have him do any motor work because I can spend the same amount in gas to bring my entire bike down to him vs shipping for just my motor to Cam and by having my entire bike there I can fine tune it anyway I need. Not only that, but I was very impressed with Jay. Jay is a standup guy that is very knowledgeable about what he does and there shouldn't be anything bad said about him on here. He was just doing what I asked of him.

[bluebanshee98]

FFS

[locogato11283]

I am going to break this down for the masses to show everyone how fucking stupid and contradictory Frank has been..
 
From Page 2:
If I would have gone with one of the other guys I wouldn't have to spend more money fine tuning my clutch, head, Jetting or domes after paying huge price tag that I spent. Then after that I get the complete runaround from answers to legitimate questions that I have about my motor.

 

From Page 3:

Cam did respond to each concern and gave insight.

 

Which is it Frank? Cam did or didn't address your concerns? And again, what WERE your concerns? Isn't it true Frank that you ONLY contacted Cam about the jets and transmission issue?

 

From Page 4:

Since I am so far from Cam, all I was saying is that I would have chosen someone closer that I could have brought those hickups I had to iron them out. I didn't expect to have to have the issues that I had. As far as Cam giving me the run around, he did give me some insight to the problems but those were not the correct answers to the issues I had. I do however appreciate the insight he gave me.

 

WHAT ISSUES did you ever contact Cam about? Transmission and the jets? Did you EVER mention anything about a head to him? Or did you take the bike to someone else and THEY told you it was wrong?

 

From Page 6:

Yes there was certain things I was disappointed with ( shift detent spring, jetting, having to spend money on a different head setup for temperature reasons, information about my motor as far as specs) and thanks for addressing those.

 

So the detent spring didn't work out for you. Big fucking deal. Jetting? Cam jetted that bike on the dyno at near sea level, which is what you're running it at.

 

From Page 6:

Since then I have lowered my mains from 400 down to 380 and might consider going further down. Possibly to 370 mains.

 

So, let me get this straight. IPS jets it at 400 and it's as you say "Jay did mention that I was very fat on my jetting but it was a safe motor, not saying that it wasn't safe before."

 

So now you're saying that you're leaning it back down to "Possibly 370 mains."

 

So, let's see. Two main sizes from where Cam had it jetted on his dyno. Something doesn't add up here Frank!

 

From Page 6:

So, In no way am I trying to pit one builder vs another. Jay and John both made mention that they were impressed with my bikes performance.

 

You're not? They were? They were so impressed they told you your head was setup all wrong and you NEVER contacted Cam about it. Is this correct Frank?

 

From Page 6:

Not only that, but I was very impressed with Jay. Jay is a standup guy that is very knowledgeable about what he does and there shouldn't be anything bad said about him on here. He was just doing what I asked of him.

 

So you TOLD Jay that the head was wrong or he told you? Did you ask him to change the head or did he tell you it was wrong? If he told you it was wrong then why didn't you immediately call Cam? After all, it is HIS MOTOR. You didn't think that maybe he set it up that way for a reason?

 

Nice try Frank, nice try. You got caught up in a lie and a misrepresentation of FACTS. Everyone knows what happened. Everyone knows you're fake and shady just like Windy is. You're a clown and you should be put on blast for it.

[JTmachining]

O snap !

[trickedcarbine]

Fuck! Did Tyler just write a book?

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

OMG Tyler, you just aren't happy unless somebody thinks in lock step with you.

It IS possible for Frank to be disappointed with his purchase experience yet NOT pissed enough to come on here and make it his mission to put Cameron on full blast.

 

I recommended REDLINE yet you spend page after page accusing me of bashing Cameron. 

Frank had CONCERNS about his motor. He called Cameron about many of them and got answers that didn't satisfy him. (Hard for Tyler to understand….."Cameron responded to each concern and gave insight"…….none of it was helpful and it didn't solve anything.) 

He had tranny issues and Cam couldn't provide an answer for Frank.

I PERSONALLY diagnosed the problem and helped spin the wrenches and solved it with Frank.  

 

Here is how "Concerns" start -

 

For starters…..you have a motor fully "Tuned" by your motor builder on his dyno…..yet only have 25 pilots in it??? 

Seeing this starts making you ask yourself questions like…..Then was it really tuned?  Was it ever in a frame on a dyno? Was a run pasted from one of the many 4 mill motors he's built and THAT run sent to Frank? Did he just throw in his "Usual 4 mill jetting but grab wrong pilots"?

If it did get dyno tuned….since the pilots were way off, did the needles get adjusted…or was this a main jet only kinda tune?

Was this a brag number run?

It was assumed that it could be dropped in the frame and ran……but clearly with 25 pilots in the carbs it would have burnt down and in the end….blame would have been on Frank since we are ALL responsible for our own jetting. So…..

 

Now Frank is wondering about his tune. Better play it safe and call on a friend. Choose to spend his own money getting his tune looked at on IPS dyno since the answers coming from Cam aren't making his worries any less and the motor is a month late so there is no time to dial it in prior to a big trip.

So, road trip to IPS and get it on the dyno. A/F runs are VERY lean. Power is not hitting the 78 the dyno curve he was sent shows. He's more concerned…..

But I tell him "DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE NUMBERS!" THE DYNO IS A TOOL FOR TUNING NOT BRAGGING AND NUMBER ADVERTIZING. LET'S GET THIS THING TUNED SO IT DOESN'T BURN UP AT THE DUNES. So we start with bigger pilots and bigger mains. In the end (even with 400 mains!) it was within ONE HP of the way it arrived "As tuned by Cameron" but now the A/F readings we are seeing are no longer lean. YES the main jets was set up even higher than they needed to be to break in the motor safely, but this motor would not live on 350's with a 25 pilots, so I'm still not sure how Cameron saw A/F numbers like he did. But NOBODY is running around talking smack about that tune.

 

Now move to ride time - 

Bike runs strong. We all comment that once the bugs get shook out and he learns how it likes to be ridden it will be a contender.

But…..the tranny feels like shit.  False neutrals and shifting on it's own over bumps. Frank makes more calls. Get's told stuff like don't rev the bike in neutral….launch in 3rd….(I get Cam's point, but Frank had a crew of knowledgeable Banshee owners riding with him and we were swapping tires and gearing and checking his free play as well as taking turns in the saddle.) End result….Cam's answers aren't providing solutions. I diagnose it as a weak spring on the shift detent arm. I tell Frank I think his tranny has a modded shift star with a full shift pro kit including the lighter spring. (I consider it widely accepted that if you run a STOCK star you run the lighter spring, but if you run a MODDED star you run the stock spring.) But after tearing down the clutch side, I find my guess was spot on. So we install a stock spring as well and tighten up the shift shaft pivot mechanism and now it shifts great.

 

While in the shop we decide to verify as much info on the build as we can since Cameron didn't provide that info for Frank. We tested compression and checked the squish. (it measured a spot on .035 and @180 PSI) Frank is told by IPS that compression is fine and squish is on the edge of tight, but should be fine and he is sent out the door to run it for the season. (No bashing of Cameron's squish settings)

 

Frank asked about needing a cool head in the future and he is told that in the off-season if he still wants a cool head, since we have the current squish measurement it will be easy to cut custom domes for a head later.

We ALL run TTO water temp gauges and while dune riding Frank is noticing that even though he is jetted VERY rich, his motor is still running 200-210+ while all of us are running at @180. He starts to think more about a different head/dome layout.

Now since the answers to his questions so far have been answered by Me and IPS and NOT effectively from Cameron, and since he has had plenty of face time with Jay at IPS…..he now is receptive to input on his motor from Jay.

Jay chooses to open the squish a little for overall longevity while keeping compression the same and counter it with a little more timing. Was that something that HAD to happen……No. But a simple dome change happens all the time. I know I have tried 3-4 different dome combo's on a motor. He can easily go back to a .035 now that his domes are removable.

 

The bike is still a beast and he is happy with his motor. Motor can still be lugged down to 3000 RPM in a corner in the wrong gear and tractor out and up the RPM band without downshifting. Runs clean throughout and isn't garbled or running wet. No plug fouling.

 

Problem is….TYLER is not happy that Frank has second guessed on where he sent his money. For TYLER….his perspective is you should want a motor from the very top builder ever.

Not being happy with a top builder I guess in his eyes makes you an idiot. (But I can think of a few unhappy PASSION customers right now...and not too long ago HE was concidered a top builder.)

Frank's post purchase customer support was not quite what he hoped it would be. THAT is the only thing he was really commenting on. After all he DID have the wrong jetting as sent by Cameron (as even he has admitted) and his tranny DID have shifting issues. Answers to those those were not adequately addressed by Cameron.

After visiting IPS and seeing the dyno curves of some of the 4 mill motors done there…..it is perfectly acceptable for him to feel that he might have gotten a better overall VALUE at IPS than elsewhere. (Post purchase support can have an big effect on overall value)

But if ALL you wanna talk about is perceived stature in the industry and HP numbers…..then sure…..Call REDLINE. His turn around and performance are well documented and many find his post purchase support adequate.

(HEY TYLER, I HAVE A REDLINE MOTOR…..You see me on here lighting him up about MY experience? NO!) 

 

Was any of this worth making a big stink over? NO.

If people had just let Frank's mild builder preference comments go without additional comments, than they would have just been a blip in HQ history. (but he is still entitled to have them)

But Tyler has to be a big ASSHOLE and talk shit about me and IPS when he is CLUELESS. Posts all kinds of shit calling me a liar and saying everything was misrepresented.

Calls me Idiot, Fake and Shady? WTF? I hadn't even posted anything!!!!

 

I stepped back and tried to let it breath……But Tyler has such a Hard-on for trying to make me look bad, that he couldn't help but drag me into this.

My roll was helping out a buddy who wasn't getting the answers he needed from a builder I RECOMMENDED!

Tyler, your roll was being your typical douche self and trying your best to look big by standing on my head. 

 

Cameron…….sorry, but your lap dog Tyler wouldn't stop barking.  

[locogato11283]

Haha, very nice try, but you fell short.

 

For starters, you don't know as much about Cam's motors as he does. The motor wouldn't have lived? Who are you to determine that? You're NO ONE, that's who.

 

Second, you're going to nitpick a simple pilot jetting error? Considering you and Frank aren't that smart, I can see how it would be the END OF THE WORLD.

 

Third, did you ever think it might be running hot because of the jetting in his VERY rich motor? No, you didn't, because you're not that smart. And now Frank thinks he needs a 370. Wow, between the two of you I'm guessing you'd make awesome burger flippers.

 

Fourth, everything WAS misrepresented which is proven by Frank's flip flopping in this post. Stevie Wonder can see that.

 

In closing, you're one of the biggest FRAUDS BansheeHQ has ever seen. For someone who claims such a high level of Banshee knowledge, it sure doesn't show through here.

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

None of this was presented or represented as aggressively as you are interpreting it.

 (I never claimed to know more about Cam's motors than him and NOBODY said the motor wouldn't live. But wider squish WILL make tuning less sensitive and clearances safer as a motor wears a bit and tolerances in bearings open up a bit.) But that's for putting words in my mouth as usual.

 

You throw out intellect assessments, but you have ZERO knowledge on the topic. You clearly are talking out your ass.

 

Nothing was an "End of the world" situation and i never represented ANY of the reactions to be such.

 

Hot because it's rich?…..LOL His motor is not THAT rich.   If you knew more you would parrot less about theories you don't have any experience with.

 

Nobody said it NEEDED 400's. (he ran them for one trip and is working his way down to 370's)  But it DID NEED bigger than 350's and 25's.  If all he was going to do is drag race…than fine. But long wide open runs on the dunes and lots of running is tight trails?…..

 

Frank wasn't flip flopping…..he was trying NOT to list the issues I just did. Don't misunderstand someone being non-confrontational with flip-flopping.

 

I don't claim to have a high level of Banshee knowledge. But you sure work at trying to represent that I know nothing.

Strong words from a guy who in posts claims to know NOTHING about motor building, discredits dyno info…. Then wants to talk like he has an understanding of anything motor related and uses dyno results as proof of performance when it suits him.

 

^^^ Calls me a FRAUD…..But sold out to Trinity racing. 

[locogato11283]

Here is the list of "issues":

 

1. 25 pilots

2. Detent spring

 

The rest is all stuff that was fabricated by two people not even smart enough to jet their own bikes.

[Redline Racing]

Lol. Thinks I didn't dyno it possibly. I never mislead Frank in any way. Except my mistake on jets. I'm pretty sure he'd have a hard time burning it down off a pilot jet error. I'm my experience if it's that lean to burn down it would hardly run. Funny I never got a phone call, txt or email when he discovered them.

But first I heard about it was on a weekend when I randomly texted him to see if he had gotten all his other parts that had not shown up so he could ride it.

He asked me about shifting. Said on his txt " hard time shifting after 10 or so passes" I said clutch may be getting hot. Seems logical on a gas mtr and 10 passes? I didn't offer any BS suggestions or irrational advice. I said " try to not rev mtr up with clutch in if you do it creates heat and clutch can do weird stuff.

Never heard one complaint about head or a question about how I set it up. But I told him on last phone call exactly how and why I set it up that way. I asked any detonation, blown head gaskets..... So on and so on. He said all was good but ran about 200*.

I dynoed the bike on my dyno chassis that all motors get thrown in. Had good load 4 sec run 85 mph, non o ring chain, my CPI pipes, carrier has outer seals removed. Still has working rear brakes and all chain slides.

I'm assuming his new axle bearings, chain, chain guides, lower gearing, different dyno tires.... Could make a hp difference.

I sent him two dyno passes. I thought it showed run info on top of my exported graphs but it doesn't. On my screen it does show it. That's why I didn't send him a detailed report on mtr info. I can send it at anytime needed.

Sorry for Tyler being a little man I cannot fix that problem.

Cam

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

I dynoed the bike on my dyno chassis that all motors get thrown in. Had good load 4 sec run 85 mph, non o ring chain, my CPI pipes, carrier has outer seals removed. Still has working rear brakes and all chain slides.

I'm assuming his new axle bearings, chain, chain guides, lower gearing, different dyno tires.... Could make a hp difference.

I sent him two dyno passes. I thought it showed run info on top of my exported graphs but it doesn't. On my screen it does show it. That's why I didn't send him a detailed report on mtr info. I can send it at anytime needed.

Sorry for Tyler being a little man I cannot fix that problem.

Cam

 

 

……..And that is why I told him not to worry about the numbers.

I still keep saying this is a strong motor. I've not wavered from that once.

But yes…..Tyler is trying so hard to use this post to bash me…..that now it's just a post full of his hate that will turn up in an internet search of REDLINE RACING.

 

Oh well…..He's not my lap dog. I'm not cleaning up the crap. 

[locogato11283]

I doubt anyone reading this thread will question the integrity or character of Redline Racing.

 

I do however believe those will come into question while reading Flip Flop Frank and WindyShadyJohn's posts.