new to the banshee world... some thoughts and Q's

[locogato11283]

I've already thrown it out there Phil. It's Windy.

[Sandking]

Does windy have a business or does he do the quad stuff on the side?

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

I'm loading up for a ride and don't have time to provide a typical detailed "Windy" response. ...

But REDLINE built MY motor.....and REDLINE was one of the places I RECOMMENDED to Frank!

So feel free to find ONE POST ANYWHERE where I have bashed Cam!

 

So Tyler, you can shut your hater mouth.

For somebody who is always making accusations of others regurgitating info.....you're doing an awful lot of yapping about me and Illinois powersports with No knowledge about anything.

 

There were issues....(minor yet concerning)....Frank made calls....Cam didn't provide answers to the issues.

 

Chapter 2 will follow AFTER I enjoy a nice ride weekend.

 

As for Frank....maybe his input on builder choice is more about value and service than performance.

But he dropped coin on a build and is entitled to his post purchase opinon. (Even if it puts Tyler on hate blast/tilt.)

 

And I have REPEATEDLY told Frank his motor is a strong build.

Edited August 14, 2014 by WINDYCITYJOHN400

[locogato11283]

Windy is either:

 

A - Liar

B - Misinformed in this case

[sheerider11]

I'm glad windy chimed in.

He really was dragged into this. This is a 2 sided story as any. We have no further input from frank.

So for windy to be the scape goat isn't fair.

I'll never be the one to find an excuse for anyone if there at fault. But I won't point fingers or lay blame with no proof.

[sheerider11]

With that being said, I think frank should voice his issues and let the community know his problems.

If a claim is made then let it be known.

Mine and RRL have both been known to tell the tale of our HJR issues. It's no secret.

Just because they are a favored sponsor doesn't mean you have to hide. It'll be tough and you'll get bashed(clearly) but if you had a legitimate problem then it should be out in the open.

 

Like I said, I give everyone a chance. There is always 2 sides to every story. Maybe frank can't tune a bike. Maybe cam made a mistake. We don't know. But to jump to conclusions is childish and silly.

Windy had voiced his side(which he didn't even have to since he had no part). Frank hasn't. Don't forget frank is the source. So this is between frank and cam. Windy and IPS have no part in this.

 

I've had a few beers and am rambling on, but I still don't like to see people bashing and jumping to conclusions. This is a place for people to voice opinions/ideas/facts no matter how dumb. We are just given the freedom to correct them and put them in there place like men.

[locogato11283]

The reason Frank didn't state what his issues are is because he's misrepresenting what happened.

[Redline Racing]

I hate to post in this thread but i think I need to. I built a 4mm stock cylinder for frank earlier this year April I believe. We spoke many times about the build and what kind of kind of mtr would best suite him. We decided to build a 4mm use his cylinders and re chamber his stock head for race gas. I would receive mtr disassemble do all machine and port work reassemble and dyno.

 

He had a 1987 quad he had just picked up so I was assuming a worn out mtr in complete disrepair. But to my complete surprise it was a fantastic mtr hardly any wear. We did a 4mm crank with max load bearing, pro mod tranny with Shift Pro kit, aggressive dune port, advance timing, v 4 reeds, re chambered stock head to race gas this is basic list of major items. We used a set of stock carbs he provided to setup and dyno with. I also choose CPI inframe pipes for this build. He was wanting a all around to race and dune with so I like the CPI power curve with stock cylinders.

 

I got mtr done and on the dyno started with 330 main and 30 pilots. Well I thought I had installed 30 pilots but i must of grabbed 25 pilots instead. Completely my screw up. But as I was messing with carbs on dyno the top threaded section was not great on one carb so I recommended  Frank to use his original carbs since rest of mtr was so nice. This was my first screw up on pilot jets which I did not catch before shipping.

 

I dynoed mtr rest of way and choose 350 mains with stock carbs and stock needles in mid position.

We use 330-350 mains on our dunes at sea level all the time. So after I checked it with my AFR gauge I was happy. Right about 13-1 where it is critical. It will be lean before because  banshees are a non accelerator pump carb to keep up with a roll on dyno run. It will be lean after peak power because  of pipe not working efficiently with mtr setup past 9.5k.

 

I was super stoked on mtr combo had great tq and good hp with a very friendly curve. I expressed my happiness with mtr to Frank and many other customers and friends. I pulled mtr and shipped to frank so he could have it the following weekend. frank wanted to pay by a money order instead of a CC. So with the time crunch I shipped mtr out in UPS without being paid. Frank  promised me I'd receive a money order Sat delivery which I did. We were both happy his mtr was in transport and i was paid. Frank received mtr a week from day I shipped and all was safe and sound. He ended up missing his first trip from other parts not arriving from other vendors.

 

I sent dyno chart to frank that I posted above to show how mtr ran. He installed and switched parts out from dyno carbs I had used. CPI drop shipped his new inframes and he was ready to go. He took bike to a local shop to dynoed. On the other dyno he had lower hp and was super lean. I asked a few questions and said sorry for jetting issues. Explained I had ran air fuel here and was safe with 350 . he stated he had to go to 400 main to get good AFR. I think he came out at 72hp and 42 tq. I said as long as your happy I am happy. Most of our communication is thru txt messages at this point.

 

He texted me after his first ride or two and said after about 10 races it finds a false neutral between gears and has a hard time shifting. He had others ride it with same results. I suggested clutch may be getting hot or its under geared possibly and to try launching in 3rd. If it bogs clutch is hooking good and gearing is probably pretty close. If it takes off with no hesitation clutch may be slipping or to low geared. also said if you rev bike up in gear that creates alot of heat and can cause problems This was our last contact end of June. Last txt from him was " runs Strong. keeps up with a 4mm cub and 35's and CPI".

 

I assume all is well, now we are at present. I see this thread and am taken back by some comments. By no means am I perfect but I strive to deliver a solid proven product. Can I always make all items perfect NO but I will try to help any way possible. So I call Frank mid week to discuss his discontent with me and my build. He stated in a quick summary to me jetting, shifting and now domes.

 

He stated to me he had clutch taken out and shifting inspected to find shifting issue. He traced it down to lighter detent spring that I supplied with Pro Mod tranny. All my kits come with Shift Pro kit unless customer specifies otherwise. I have heard people complain about shifter being to easy. But way more like how easy it shifts. This now cost him more money to fix this shifting issue.

 

He said his local guy said domes were way to tight and needed to be changed. Frank did say bike would run 200 degrees at times.he was having no detonation issues that he new of & no plugs loosing.  I stated I had set domes up at about .035-.040 squish and at 12.5cc trapped volume. This would be about 16-1 comp ratio i'd guess 180+ - comp kicking. On a aggressive race gas mtr I am assembling I will run them pretty tight on stock cylinders. So now he had to get a new head when he paid me to cut a head. More money spent after paying me to build mtr.

 

I will take full blame for the pilot jets, I screwed up and told him I made a mistake.As for the main jets I can't explain why he had to go to 400 mains to get good AFR reading. I dyno mtrs and jet them for all over the country and other countries Ive never had to may complaints on what I send out. On the shifting I stated to him that's part of the kit and sorry it didn't work out for him. On the head I told him exactly how I set it up and why I choose to set it up that way. He was irritated he had to spend more money to fix a mtr he paid me good money to build. I called him and apologized for the issues that have came up with his build. This post is not to bash on Frank or anyone else it's just to tell what happened with our transaction.

 

Thanks Cam

Typing and translating thoughts into words is not my strong point. Sorry to all you grammar Nazis for my mistakes.

[trickedcarbine]

Probably the first builder to come on here in years to explain a situation, admit their faults, offer insight, and do it in a respectable fashion.

 

My position, not that it matters. It went to IPS to be looked over with a fine tooth comb and their opinion on what they like is different then cams opinion.

 

Fact: Cam has really pushed the benchmark with the level of performance in the last few years. Cam is a step ahead of IPS at all times.

 

So for IPS to say "the head was to tight you need a new one" is a bit weird as it wasn't his motor but ok. It didn't detonate and ran well...... But he was glad to sell a new head and re machine it. Why couldn't the Redline head be turned up a few more thou if some one wanted more clearance? This was allegedly a case of not enough material being removed not to much, so why not just machine the old one.

 

On the trans, there are several threads where guys debate on the Shift Pro detent arm. Lots of guys like the kit as is, others like it with a firm OEM spring. In my opinion, it really depends on how the star is worked over but in the end it's 50/50. If your 6'3" and 245 lbs you will definitely want the firmer spring. If you're a wee 5'7" 160, you will probably prefer the lighter spring if the star isn't to worked.

 

Let's also remember that this same combo was down a handful of both torque and HP after IPS "fixed" everything.

Edited August 18, 2014 by trickedcarbine

[sprinklerman]

 

 

So for IPS to say "the head was to tight you need a new one" is a bit weird as it wasn't his motor but ok. It didn't detonate and ran well...... But he was glad to sell a new head and re machine it.

Why couldn't the Redline head be turned up a few more thou if some one wanted more clearance? This was allegedly a case of not enough material being removed not to much, so why not just machine the old

 

Let's also remember that this same combo was down a handful of both torque and HP after IPS "fixed" everything.

These 2 points are of particular interest to me.

you have an almost 80hp stock cyl, that doesn't detonate or back plugs out ..already jetted ...but IPS needs to get in there and set it up different?

Why? Just because it's not how THEY choose to do it?

Anybody who's been around this game knows there are MANY ways to achieve the same goal. Just because it's a different way than YOU do it, doesn't make it wrong.

I've NEVER seen a dune ported stock cylinder need 400mains btw. OF COURSE it'll be down HP with that size main ( idgaf what IPS a/f meter said) if Redline said run 330-350. ..I'm pretty sure he knows what his motors jet out at over someone else.

I'm not directing any of this to Frank btw..I'm still of the mindset that someone got between the builder of the motor and Frank ...and fubard the situation.

[JTmachining]

Props to the business owners who take the time to post on BHQ.

[trickedcarbine]

^ let's also remember that this is a race fuel motor with compression and timing. So 200*...... That's not so bad to see. Especially when most daily drivers are sitting right at 205-210

Edited August 18, 2014 by trickedcarbine

[sycoticbanshee00]

 

These 2 points are of particular interest to me.

you have an almost 80hp stock cyl, that doesn't detonate or back plugs out ..already jetted ...but IPS needs to get in there and set it up different?

Why? Just because it's not how THEY choose to do it?

Anybody who's been around this game knows there are MANY ways to achieve the same goal. Just because it's a different way than YOU do it, doesn't make it wrong.

I've NEVER seen a dune ported stock cylinder need 400mains btw. OF COURSE it'll be down HP with that size main ( idgaf what IPS a/f meter said) if Redline said run 330-350. ..I'm pretty sure he knows what his motors jet out at over someone else.

I'm not directing any of this to Frank btw..I'm still of the mindset that someone got between the builder of the motor and Frank ...and fubard the situation.

I currently have 440 mains, 30 pilots, needle in the middle on my stock cylinder 4 mill, stock carbs, shearer sb, pod filters. 77rwhp, 40rwtq. Everyone says that I'm jetted beyond fat and should be in the 340 range more or less. The afr on the dyno showed that my engine wanted more fuel. Maybe they jetted it fat so that I could be on the safe side? Should I experiment with some 340, 350 mains? Also what would require an engine to have such a fat main jet? It just doesn't make sense that similar setups out there are in the 340 range for the most part.

[locogato11283]

Air leak.

[trickedcarbine]

15 years ago when the knowledge wasn't so wide spread I would find weird jetting acceptable. But now, there is a 95% chance that no matter what you're doing there is a combo very similar to whatever you are putting together with info on where it should be ballpark as far as jetting. After doing this for 15 years, I have a kinda decent back ground with setting these things up. So if I were doing a stock cylinder with say a MX port and a few bolt ons with pro circuits but it needed a 380 main, I'd know something is fishy.