KEVPOPPAPUMP Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 Just got back from the most dissapointing trip to Glamis ever. Everthing out there destroyed me from YFZ 450s, Raptors, and piped Banshees. Here are the mods: Patriot Duner Port, welded crank, shaved head, Delta V-Force 2's, Toomey T5's, Toomey 2:1 filter, +4 timing, TORS removed, Dynojet needles, 340 main, 30 pilot, and 140-145 psi compression. Here are the problems: 1st gear pulls like mad, then 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, all feel flat and exactly the same. You would swear your in the same gear from 2nd-4th. The engine is screaming and the quad ain't going like is should. Then 5th and 6th gear the quad pulls really hard like it should. Plugs look darker tan with 360 mains and get lighter shades of tan down to the current 340 main. There is also a flogging stuttering problem form 0 - a little over 1/2 throttle. Sometimes in 1st gear the engine will loose power, start flogging, and die. I tried leaning out the needles and no help at all. I emailed Dan @ Patriot but I know he's busy and I need to get this thing moving by Turkey Day in Glamis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLET~BOY Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 what is your gearing i would turn the air screws a quarter turn to a half turn out that should clean the bottom up did you try moving the clip on the needle to lean it out mabey thats it you should be running a 14 41 or like a 13 38 sounds like she might be fat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLET~BOY Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 opps missed the spot you said you leaned them out you moved them up not down just checking somtimes people get mixed up i would try movin it up one notch quarter to half turn on the air screw if that dousn't help maby drop to a 29 or 28 pilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDD Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 Your clutch is slipping. Add some aftermarket heavy duty springs and maybe get new clutch plated depending on how much yours are worn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEVPOPPAPUMP Posted November 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 Your clutch is slipping. Add some aftermarket heavy duty springs and maybe get new clutch plated depending on how much yours are worn. Nah, I installed a Barnett Dirt Digger Clutch kit during the rebuild and it grabs fine. I did play with the pilot screws and that didn't help either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLET~BOY Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 what gearing you running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEVPOPPAPUMP Posted November 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 what gearing you running Stock setup so 14 in front and whatevers stock in rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLET~BOY Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 i duno man i'm out of guesses mabey get it on a dyno and have them tune it it really sounds like jetting to me but who knows keep calling dan thats all i can say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azsandrat Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Try putting the stock pilot jets in (25) and get rid of those needles. Stock is all you need. If its fluttering at low to mid its the needles. I had a set in a motor similar to yours and it works best with stock pilots and needles.Get the low to mid working right before you dial in the top end jetting. As for gearing I would us a 13 front and a 40 rear for Glamis. When tuning a carb you start with the idle and work up. The air screws are for idle. Turn then in and it richens it up, out just the opp. The needle is for 1/4 to 3/4 and the main jets for WOT. My guess would be stock pilots,stock needles and around 360 for a main to start. Do yourself a favor and pitch the needles first before you start tuning. I have a 385 4mm stroker and its got stock carbs that have been bore but its using stock pilots and stock needles. Its ripps just as Jethro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
. Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 you sure your tires arent spinning on the rims either? Put a marker mark on your rim and your tire to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEVPOPPAPUMP Posted November 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Try putting the stock pilot jets in (25) and get rid of those needles. Stock is all you need. If its fluttering at low to mid its the needles. I had a set in a motor similar to yours and it works best with stock pilots and needles.Get the low to mid working right before you dial in the top end jetting. As for gearing I would us a 13 front and a 40 rear for Glamis. When tuning a carb you start with the idle and work up. The air screws are for idle. Turn then in and it richens it up, out just the opp. The needle is for 1/4 to 3/4 and the main jets for WOT. My guess would be stock pilots,stock needles and around 360 for a main to start. Do yourself a favor and pitch the needles first before you start tuning. I have a 385 4mm stroker and its got stock carbs that have been bore but its using stock pilots and stock needles.Its ripps just as Jethro. I know I should've listed all the details of what I already tried when tuning out in Glamis but didn't want to write a long novel but: - I originally started with the stock needles and it ran so fat around half throttle that adjustment went on till it couldn't be leaned out anymore (c-clip on 1st pos. or top of needle). I paid its price in GOLD for the DYNOJET needles at vendor row in Glamis because I was out of ideas on fixing up the midrange. It is better than stock but still not what should be normal IMHO. - If I go any smaller on the pilots, it runs too lean to get the quad moving in 1st. With this 30 pilot and 1 turn out, throttle starting out is perfect. I talked to Dan and he believes its the clutch not holding like SDD did already mention. I will check it out but that doesn't seem right to me since 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears seem flat (i.e. screams but still cant hear the engine hitting power band) even though quad is moving, just not fast. Plus when I installed the Dirt Digger clutch, I triple checked the clutch setting. If anything, a buddy said he'll give me 3k for my F'ed up Banshee but I'd rather not go that route eventhough frustration makes me act on bad decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEVPOPPAPUMP Posted November 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Well I popped my clutch cover off and found my brand new Barnette Dirt Digger clutch worn to hell. The little ridges on the friction plate are nearly non existent now and the metal plates have burn marks on opposite ends. WTF? I torqued the spring bolts in sequence and steps as well as pre-soaked all the clutch parts like the manual stated as well as aligned the clutch arm arrows. Could it be the ATF Type F that I've been using since day 1? The usual cherry red fluid was burnt and looking like grape juice. Anyone have any reccomendations on a clutch to replace my Barnette Dirt Digger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintoxicated Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Well I popped my clutch cover off and found my brand new Barnette Dirt Digger clutch worn to hell. The little ridges on the friction plate are nearly non existent now and the metal plates have burn marks on opposite ends. WTF?I torqued the spring bolts in sequence and steps as well as pre-soaked all the clutch parts like the manual stated as well as aligned the clutch arm arrows. Could it be the ATF Type F that I've been using since day 1? The usual cherry red fluid was burnt and looking like grape juice. Anyone have any reccomendations on a clutch to replace my Barnette Dirt Digger? Damn man that sucks I have been using golden spectro 2-stroke tranny oil in mine and I have no problems, other than a lighter wallet because I change it too often heh. Guess your not going to go to fast with burned out clutch plates. I was thinking about getting that same clutch setup! I was thinking your jetting at first since I was having the same problem this weekend out at Superstition, It would rev high and not make much power for how high it was revved, found out my jetting was off had to move from 350's to 370's and I think I may try 380's now Anyways, at least your on top of the problems now I also found moving from 25 (stock) to 32.5 pilots helped a little with lowend hesitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLET~BOY Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 i had the same problem with my dirt digger clutch it was crappy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEVPOPPAPUMP Posted November 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 I can't bring myself to order another Barnette Dirt Digger clutch so I think maybe this time around I will order the EBC Kevlar clutch kit once Rocky Mountain gets it in stock. I did hear some sort of negative about this kit. Something about Kevlar ruining the basket or was it only on a billet basket? As for the jetting, once I get this clutch issue done with, I'll toss in the 32.5 pilots since I'm already at 30 with one turn out. While I'm waiting on parts, I'll relocate my coolant overflow to the front. At least do something productive to this stubborn Shee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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