new Wiseco 4 mil pistons?

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

Where...the fuck....is windy.....

May I help you? LOL

 

I'm not sure what all the drama is about. I'm following this, but so far it's just a part with potential.

My 370 long rod motor might have finally seen it's last ride. I'm trying to decide if I'm going 4mill or doing another 370. If I go 4mill I'll be trying these.

What is all the negativity about?

These pistons offer intake windows that correct the location specifically for 4 mills. So.....people want to argue that an optimised window location is bad? People want to claim windows aren't even needed? I don't understand the negativity at this point.

If I run these I'll still be doing a custom cut dome and setting the motor up right. It will just have a Banshee dome profile and optimised intake windows. With my build I will intentionally give away HP in favor of killer torque. (I'll be using FMF fatty's and keeping the HP in the 65-70 range while focussing on a monster torque curve.

So testing isn't going to show a big BRAG NUMBER.

I don't understand the pages of debate so far.

As usual I'm looking for a piston comparison test to establish the potential improvement.

The Nay sayers seem to be knocking something, but they can't stay on topic long enough to make a good point.

[sprinklerman]

The only nay saying I see is rebuttal of the claims thst new windows will add 7+hp.

[shanYE west]

 

 

May I help you? LOL

 

I'm not sure what all the drama is about. I'm following this, but so far it's just a part with potential.

My 370 long rod motor might have finally seen it's last ride. I'm trying to decide if I'm going 4mill or doing another 370. If I go 4mill I'll be trying these.

What is all the negativity about?

These pistons offer intake windows that correct the location specifically for 4 mills. So.....people want to argue that an optimised window location is bad? People want to claim windows aren't even needed? I don't understand the negativity at this point.

If I run these I'll still be doing a custom cut dome and setting the motor up right. It will just have a Banshee dome profile and optimised intake windows. With my build I will intentionally give away HP in favor of killer torque. (I'll be using FMF fatty's and keeping the HP in the 65-70 range while focussing on a monster torque curve.

So testing isn't going to show a big BRAG NUMBER.

I don't understand the pages of debate so far.

As usual I'm looking for a piston comparison test to establish the potential improvement.

The Nay sayers seem to be knocking something, but they can't stay on topic long enough to make a good point.

 

I agree with all of that..  I'd like to see what the port timings are.  I think they'll still be off a bit but I wont know until I get a set and put a wheel on.. But that will never happen since I dont have any motors that would use these.  The only thing I'm nay saying is the gain of 7hp  by using these pistons.  Here is why.. lets just assume for arguments sake that all port timings line up perfectly.  Your not going to see 7hp gain by simply adding 23cc of displacement and moving the intake windows a bit.  I'll stay with my estimate of 2-3hp. 

IMO.. this is similar to the 10hp gain over shearer pipes.

 

I think they will have a place.. but at 250.00 a set I'd need proof of the gains to justify them.  Jmo of course.  To ea. their own.

 

Who is the distributor for these pistons?

 

serious question.  wouldn't a window mod give you a similar piston? other then the 1mm pin location that would have to be accounted for?

[registered user]

how high up is the pin located ? high located pins dont seem favorable from what ive seen on my own engines. it reduces the transfer entrace so the piston side skirting has to be raised which created a shortcircuit through the aux exh ports. this wont be a problem if you dont have auxillaries but never the less it may close off the transfer entrance unless wiseco raised the side skirt as well. if the side skirt isnt raised you may benefit from boyesn ports so theres a larger easy path direct to the transfer. this is why i prefer super long rods and wrist pins located fairly low. it gives you a large transfer opening plus plenty of side skirt to cover the auxillaries at tdc

[shanYE west]

this has a 6mm pin offset , the 795 has a 5mm offset

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

At the very least having the widow in the right spot eliminates needing custom machined pistons.

Plus a modded piston starts life with widows in the wrong spot. Elongating them only cuts down on piston material and strength.

 

Before everyone starts doubting performance claims…….keep in mind an INCORRECTLY PORTED PASSION CUB MOTOR makes 5 LESS HP.

Also it has been tested to show that the V-Force 4 reeds that everyone was so quick to doubt actually made 7 MORE HP in the mid RPM's. (Just because a PEAK number isn't way higher doesn't mean the motor isn't stronger in the useable RPM's)

 

In the end, too many people are already somehow feeling like their motors/builds are being insulted. This is a NEW product! Nobody's saying anyone has a motor done wrong….but maybe now there is a way to do them a little better.

I'm pretty sure that this new configuration will at least offer alternative options for people. Sure you can be a NOOB and drop in a 4 mill crank, slap these pistons in with a nice thick base gasket and you're ready to roll.

Think about this…..How many time a week does someone come on here and ask about porting and everyone tells them to just go straight to a 4 mill build?

How many times does that guy tell us he can't afford a good bottom end right now?

THIS piston let's them at least spend the money on a good bottom end first. They can always get porting later. This is the ultimate budget build piston. (There is always the Vito's SuperStock pistons) But this design has some possibilities.

 

I know of 2 motors getting these soon. One is a balls to the walls, go for broke, top number 4 mill build. The other is a 4 mill dialed down a little more. I may just be guy #3 and jump in with both feet on a 4 mill torque build using these……..

[Bennett131]

 

 

 

I'm going to hog these holes out something fierce hoping to gain 10 horse... (obviously the piston is fucked)

[shanYE west]

At the very least having the widow in the right spot eliminates needing custom machined pistons.

Plus a modded piston starts life with widows in the wrong spot. Elongating them only cuts down on piston material and strength.

 

Before everyone starts doubting performance claims…….keep in mind an INCORRECTLY PORTED PASSION CUB MOTOR makes 5 LESS HP.

Also it has been tested to show that the V-Force 4 reeds that everyone was so quick to doubt actually made 7 MORE HP in the mid RPM's. (Just because a PEAK number isn't way higher doesn't mean the motor isn't stronger in the useable RPM's)

 

In the end, too many people are already somehow feeling like their motors/builds are being insulted. This is a NEW product! Nobody's saying anyone has a motor done wrong….but maybe now there is a way to do them a little better.

I'm pretty sure that this new configuration will at least offer alternative options for people. Sure you can be a NOOB and drop in a 4 mill crank, slap these pistons in with a nice thick base gasket and you're ready to roll.

Think about this…..How many time a week does someone come on here and ask about porting and everyone tells them to just go straight to a 4 mill build?

How many times does that guy tell us he can't afford a good bottom end right now?

THIS piston let's them at least spend the money on a good bottom end first. They can always get porting later. This is the ultimate budget build piston. (There is always the Vito's SuperStock pistons) But this design has some possibilities.

 

I know of 2 motors getting these soon. One is a balls to the walls, go for broke, top number 4 mill build. The other is a 4 mill dialed down a little more. I may just be guy #3 and jump in with both feet on a 4 mill torque build using these……..

My point of the window mod.. is that it give similar performance gains as these.   Builders have been doing it for years and only gaining a HP or so.  Most dont do it now as its not worth the cost.  thats all my point was.

 

My opinion on the VF4 claims is another topic.  Perhaps we can discuss that over drinks in LS and you would better understand my point of view.

 

Again.. Only thing I'm nay saying is that I dont see these pistons making a 7hp gain with no supporting mods.  Its the same as saying by boring your cylinders out to 66mm you'll pick up 7hp.

 

Now, if I'm thinking about this correctly.  these pistons would allow for ported stock stroke motors to jump up to a 4mil long rod with minor changes.  Since the port timings are all staying the same?

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

My point of the window mod.. is that it give similar performance gains as these.   Builders have been doing it for years and only gaining a HP or so.  Most dont do it now as its not worth the cost.  thats all my point was.

 

My opinion on the VF4 claims is another topic.  Perhaps we can discuss that over drinks in LS and you would better understand my point of view.

 

Again.. Only thing I'm nay saying is that I dont see these pistons making a 7hp gain with no supporting mods.  Its the same as saying by boring your cylinders out to 66mm you'll pick up 7hp.

 

Now, if I'm thinking about this correctly.  these pistons would allow for ported stock stroke motors to jump up to a 4mil long rod with minor changes.  Since the port timings are all staying the same?

 

 

Ok, let's clear something up right now…….Whoever posted the 7HP comment…..it was HIS guess. That is NOT a number presented by anyone in connection with this product.

Let's not focus on that number any more because it's not realistic based off the testing builders have done over the years. (Piston window mods are obviously not new. This technique has years of research.)

 

In MY opinion 2-3 PEAK HP is reasonable to assume we will see. The nice part (That Shanye touched on) is now there is not the extra cost of getting windows machined and we have a piston that come with the intake windows where the BANSHEE cylinder NEEDS them when running a 4 mill crankl

Again, nobody is saying any previous builds are wrong or junk. But future builds with this piston offer some real promise.

With the windows raised up, they allow the windows to match the floor of the intake with the piston at BDC. That would/could/should allow intake flow to begin sooner and improve overall flow.

Will that lead to peak power increases of 2-3HP? I would think so. To think any higher would require actual dyno testing to verify. (You all know I don't shy away from that.) 

But I'm more intrigued at the possibility of better low and mid RPM power. This is a factor most don't look into. But if I could see a 3HP gain at 6000 or 7000 RPM, I would take that any day over 3HP at 9000 

I'm curious how this piston will aid the power of the motor when your "Off the pipe" like when riding woods and trails. Seeing any gain in 4-stroke or Serval type torque in the low end would be amazing. Especially if it can come without sacrificing the Peak HP.

 

I think I've about talked myself into doing this build.     

 

Kinda sad. My little 370 motor was a real strong running heartbreaker. 

[sprinklerman]

Here's my take.

1. I'm all for new stuff. It's cool, fun, and something else to spend money on.

2. I'm NOT one of those guys that automatically buy in to some new product promising the world. ( clarification here> I'm not saying wiseco has promised anything..I'm highly doubt full of the OP's claim that these pistons will produce 7+hp over a properly built 795 engine.)

I'm sorry but relocated piston pin and relocated windows aren't netting 7-10hp as was claimed.

Will these pistons work out in the long run..probably. ..and I hope so, for the reasons windy mentioned. ..but will they net someone 7+ hp over a properly done 795..I'm betting no.

Once again for the record. ..no hate here for the piston or their intended purpose. ..just skeptical of wild HP claims.

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

Yes, the OP is thinking that the changes in the PORT TIMINGS in HIS application might see HP gains. (And he's guessing high in my opinion at this point and it is NOT a claim made anywhere else) But I don't think anyone is claiming a number based off of Window placement either.

At this point I'm guessing 2 maybe 3 HP at BEST over a motor without the properly aligned windows. Easily 1-2

 

But like I said, with the vast majority of dune/drag guys jumping into Cubs and the interest in Servals for other types of riding……if this piston in ANY WAY offers better low end power along with classic 4 mill top end power without having to go with aftermarket cylinders……. I'm all in.

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

Where...the fuck....is windy.....

 

 

Hold up, I got dis. WINNNNNNDYYYYYYY!!!

 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

 

​ Look what you fuckers went and did!     Now I'm doing a motor build?………    Kinda excited about it. 

[sprinklerman]

​ Look what you fuckers went and did! Now I'm doing a motor build?……… Kinda excited about it.

Hurry up and get done before the HQ ride!

[trickedcarbine]

Totally on board with everything stated by windy, Shane, and sprinkler.

 

These are gonna make a motor lay out easier and make stupid high deck heights way better. I just disagreed with the original claims of power just over windowing. I've had motors with regular ol 795's, 795's with boost port added, 795's with window work, and 795's with both window and boost added. Same with 513's. The 7-10 just isn't there. The real deal will be better face through the usable curve. Not a crazy HP addition.

 

I just think the thread is off track and they only nay saying I've seen is the over the peak gains. At this point it's one of those things where people are just arguing even though they agree it's a good thing.

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

^^^ Agree 

 

That's why I'm saying, let's step away from that and move forward with discussion about possibilities.

 

Sounds like more than a few are in agreement with me about these pistons having some features that offer some real potential…...