new Wiseco 4 mil pistons?

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

Well…….this is an inanimate object.

You either find the design to be beneficial for your use or you don't.

 

Who thought it up is really irrelevant. But you can go a head and take a few guesses….

[Starwriter]

Thanks Windy. After reading through that 3 times, your concepts actually occurred to me. The initial flow through the piston windows (and boysen ports) is simply the release of pressure from the intake area, to assist in filling the transfers. The intake area is never closed off from the rest of the bottom end by the piston. It's just more accumulated space that gets dumped into the transfers. I originally thought the piston windows main purpose was to allow incoming AFM from the reeds into the bottom end.

[south street speed shop]

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

Thanks Windy. After reading through that 3 times, your concepts actually occurred to me. The initial flow through the piston windows (and boysen ports) is simply the release of pressure from the intake area, to assist in filling the transfers. The intake area is never closed off from the rest of the bottom end by the piston. It's just more accumulated space that gets dumped into the transfers. I originally thought the piston windows main purpose was to allow incoming AFM from the reeds into the bottom end.

 

We have been working with pistons designed for the STOCK location of a piston in the cylinder. But stroker motors change the original alignment of the intake windows and the actual intake. This is something that builders have just not tried to address that much..

While it's TRUE that piston windows have been modded in the past. This was largely for the DRAG crowd. So low to mid RPM gains were not widely noted. If you think about the availability of latent gases stored in the intake area, the sooner they are released…..the sooner a suction force can occur in that area and begin to trigger the opening of the reeds.

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

Answer your PM guy! 

[Starwriter]

The 1st dyno pull with the 11882 pistons.

 

[shanYE west]

Shanye your a big player in Michigan.

 

How do we have 2 sets of these in house for testing and you're still wondering who designed them?

 

He's in Michiagn and a lot of you already run some of his parts……..

 

(No it's NOT minky) HE was just smart enough to see what these could be and bought up damn near the whole batch.

 

Doesn't really matter to you though. You don't run a piston this small. LOL

 

I'm too far north to be a player.  I've also lost most of my ambition to keep up with the latest on goings of this sport.

 

Your right.. I havn't needed a piston that small in about 12yrs..  But trying my hand with some 513's this year.  Probably

switch them out for a different piston next year though. 

 

Only reason it matters to me..  There is certain people I refuse to support.    Kinda like you and trinity.

[trickedcarbine]

all this with 795's!!!!! these are 1mm different!!!!!!! do you get what 1mm can do? NO. I had a friend that worked for the Yamaha Factory GP team, they would send GP cylinders to Millenium, these 500's made 190 RWHP and when they would Nickle plate them they (Millenium) would chamfer his ports and he would go crazy because the cylinders were ruined! because of a chamfer! there is noone on here that could phathom what goes into GP motors, millions of dollars developing stuff, to talk to someone at that level is mind boggling I am done talking to these kids I'm gonna let John take it from here, and NO I have never talked to John but he gets it. Last thing Wiseco is a Piston Manufacturer that knows Aluminum with a certain Silicone content and how to COPY OEM piston's to say Wiseco did anything is ridiculous thay take a print a customer gives them and makes it, they know nothing about ports or port timing, good luck John

See what I mean about people agreeing but still wanting to argue?

 

Yes I know what 1mm can make. More or less you are just looking to stroke your own Napoleon complex here. Every time you should be posting results you just talk about what people you know have done. Quit fucking fucking boasting about your marginal knowledge and start building motors professionally to show proof or kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP TILL YOU HAVE RESULTS. Obviously you're not setting the world on fire so let it go I've agreed these are better. But I don't agree with your claims. That's all. You are literally telling me to put these in my current 795 motor and change the dome and I'll gain 7 horses. Go back through an read your own stuff. It's not happening. I've even had in windowed pistons bought and machined where similar to how the window is on these and it was only minimal gain.

 

7-10 HP with window work ain't happening.

 

 

NOT HAPPENING!

 

NOT HAPPENING!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOT HAPPENING!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOT HAPPENING!

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, it's not...........

NOT HAPPENING!

 

 

 

 

NOT HAPPENING!

[shanYE west]

 

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

Funny how one guy talking smack can create more heat than light.

 

He isn't involved on the Banshee community.

He may build street bikes with RZ power plants….but he chimed in with ZERO posts and tried to talk like a top player.

Pissed off so many with off the wall comments, that people want to associate this dude with the pistons.

This guy is NOT involved with them. He just has a set and wanted to flex for us all. 

 

And YES Tricked……clearly there is no way anyone is going to see 7HP. What we WILL see is still left to be determined.

I would like to stick to talking about peoples thoughts on how these pistons might be beneficial for the various parts of motor and port layouts.

 

 

FACT.....

But, while we're having fun let's talk about bottom of the piston cooling and wrist pin lubrication affects that a window provides oh so very well. Is this affect more of a benefit or less of a benefit? Is it maybe MORE of a benefit than the dream that they add hp?

Set Go

 

Carry on….

Edited June 28, 2014 by WINDYCITYJOHN400

[trickedcarbine]

Maybe I should clarify. If the motor is going from a stock ported, stock cylinder, stock stroke 350 going to the smaller base gasket, new piston with reach around windows, 4 mil crank, and proper domes. It will see 7 HP.

 

Just curious, you seem to feel that NOBODY ELSE here has even had a thought on the same level as your Said friends. All because nobody agrees with your thoughts on a window will do? Just so where clear, if you're that ignorant and arrogant, I'm not so sure I'd want to think in that level. You do realize that in order for this piston to have been thought up, designed, and built, there had to be R&D before hand for some one to wanna know up front what really worked before they paid Weisco to make a run. Simply put, so that you don't over analyze. That means these were a result of banshee specific builders spending lots of time over the last tens of years, developing these. That means many combos have come and went as well as trends in stroker set ups. Being that you aren't really in to the banshee scene, I don't expect you to know this, but people have obviously been experimenting with windows. It's not NEW! Being that you're so intellectual, I'd think you knew that. So being that we know know it's BEEN DONE, do you really think none of us inbred backwoods hill billy banshee morons has no clue as to what's happening? I offered to come make this happen, but here you are trying to be the cool kid. No point in trying to show off here. Trust me, nobody really gives a shit about you. They just want the result. You'll hang out for a while and realize nobody is really that impressed and go back to your VESPA forum.

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

   S.S.S.S = 04zSpittingKlots

 

Everyone is having too much fun putting this guy on Blast. 

 

 

Blast him……..these pistons are still sweet. 

[trickedcarbine]

FACT.....

 

But, while we're having fun let's talk about bottom of the piston cooling and wrist pin lubrication affects that a window provides oh so very well. Is this affect more of a benefit or less of a benefit? Is it maybe MORE of a benefit than the dream that they add hp?

 

Set Go

This makes me think of when I first started Ice racing and we spent a lot of time doing different things to the piston to keep it cool. In the end, bigger windows seemed to make the best result. Minimal power gain but cylinder temps (data logged with pyrometers) actually were different. We tried a multitude of things. There is obviously a threshold though where going to far hurts piston life. So we tried the boost ports and side skirt work. The best results came from slight window work, two smaller holes on upper rear of the piston, and some skirt chamfering on the sides. No noticeable life lost, cooler temps.

[registered user]

Actually if you think about it as a whole process, when the reeds snapped shut there was an Air Fuel charge caught between the motor side of the reeds and the piston. That charge is still under pressure (the same pressure that pushed all the other A/F mixture up the transfers)

As soon as the piston intake windows line up with the actual intake (as piston nears BDC) flow begins due to that charge having stored pressure of it's own. So there IS flow even as the piston stops and changes direction at BDC.

In reality, not ALL the fresh air and fuel make it up the transfers. There is always a raw fuel/air charge in the bottom end. Having a motor with a section of it's cycle that DOESN'T involve an intake of exhaust action just leaves a gap in the resonance action. (Like a cell phone signal breaking up during a conversation)

That's why you want all the chances for the motor to breath/exhale almost non-stop.

your implying that all 2t engines have the same efficiency through each cycle which simply isnt true. even with a well desingned setup from airbox to pipe i think the best you could hope for is the reeds popping open around bdc or slightly after. a lesser engine may not see inflow until the piston is well on its way up

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

Well.......regardless of the debate on when reeds begin to open......how does having a LOWER piston window help?

It's my belief that timing the release of the stored and pressurised intake charge to be closer to the actual reed flow is good.

 

Before we spiral into a complete motor theory debate, let's get back to the part of the discussion that these pistons effect vs other pistons.

 

I think a raised window offers a better action than a lower window or even a modded window.

It can time the release of stored pressurised charge stored in the intake so it acts more like the front side of the soon to be incoming flow from the reeds.

It will basically flush and refill the underside of the piston and leave the mixture pulled in on the intake stroke to do the job of filling the cases.

It moves the flow closer to the top of the piston providing a cooling effect as well as lube for the pin.

 

In the end......I think a raised window is a good thing.

Obviously HOW good is debateable.

If anyone feels a lower window has a benefit, I'm open to hearing that point of view.

 

I'm not a believer that a raised window will do any more for PEAK power than previously tested modded pistons. (1-2 more HP can typically be expected)

But I think stronger gains can be seen in the low and mid RPM's when the pipe resonance is not in effect. When you're running on motor design alone. I see it as a torque mod rather than a HP mod.

 

So......raised window......thoughts?

Adjusted pin height.......input?