new Wiseco 4 mil pistons?

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

Hurry up and get done before the HQ ride!

 

I don't think that will be a problem.

 

You can definitely throw a leg over it then. 

[south street speed shop]

Totally on board with everything stated by windy, Shane, and sprinkler.

 

These are gonna make a motor lay out easier and make stupid high deck heights way better. I just disagreed with the original claims of power just over windowing. I've had motors with regular ol 795's, 795's with boost port added, 795's with window work, and 795's with both window and boost added. Same with 513's. The 7-10 just isn't there. The real deal will be better face through the usable curve. Not a crazy HP addition.

 

I just think the thread is off track and they only nay saying I've seen is the over the peak gains. At this point it's one of those things where people are just arguing even though they agree it's a good thing.

all this with 795's!!!!! these are 1mm different!!!!!!! do you get what 1mm can do? NO. I had a friend that worked for the Yamaha Factory GP team, they would send GP cylinders to Millenium, these 500's made 190 RWHP and when they would Nickle plate them they (Millenium) would chamfer his ports and he would go crazy because the cylinders were ruined! because of a chamfer! there is noone on here that could phathom what goes into GP motors, millions of dollars developing stuff, to talk to someone at that level is mind boggling I am done talking to these kids I'm gonna let John take it from here, and NO I have never talked to John but he gets it. Last thing Wiseco is a Piston Manufacturer that knows Aluminum with a certain Silicone content and how to COPY OEM piston's to say Wiseco did anything is ridiculous thay take a print a customer gives them and makes it, they know nothing about ports or port timing, good luck John

[shanYE west]

 

I dont even like wiseco. I realize wiseco had nothing to do with this piston other then make it.

I understand 1mm is huge, which is why I'd like to mock one up with a degree wheel.

I'm curious how these will work with my ported 350 if I switch to a 4mil. 

 

Who is the distributor for these?  anyone know? or is Minkia the source?

[fastbanshee8]

15 pages of BULLSHIT over a product that has very limited to no availability.  WTF is the point op?

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

 

I dont even like wiseco. I realize wiseco had nothing to do with this piston other then make it.

I understand 1mm is huge, which is why I'd like to mock one up with a degree wheel.

I'm curious how these will work with my ported 350 if I switch to a 4mil. 

 

Who is the distributor for these?  anyone know? or is Minkia the source?

 

Right now the first batch was mostly bought up by Minkia (Rattle can Ray) to sell with motor kits he's putting together with cranks and cylinders he has.

 

(Yes he's using them as a real basic slap together 4 mill kit.)

 

But the piston design has it's merits and additional batches are planned as the first batch sells.

Minkia has the first round of sales, but soon the distributor will be selling them as well. (Possibly here)

 

I'm not sure what the OP's point was, but I don't really give a crap. I'm not a fan of people with ZERO time on the site coming in and throwing elbows to look important.  (And he can't manage to answer a PM)

What I do know is this piston is a nice item to have at our disposal for setting up motors. As I've said, I'm planing a build with a set right now.

Just the fact that the windows are laid out to MATCH the needed location for a 4 mill build is a big deal in my eyes.

I think it will really shine in the low to mid RPM's with slight gains on top.

 

I'm not saying everyone needs to tear down motors and start over…….but for a scratch build 4 mill like I'm about to do, it makes perfect sense to set the motor up with these instead of the usual 795's

[tfaith08]

My point of the window mod.. is that it give similar performance gains as these.   Builders have been doing it for years and only gaining a HP or so.  Most dont do it now as its not worth the cost.  thats all my point was.

 

My opinion on the VF4 claims is another topic.  Perhaps we can discuss that over drinks in LS and you would better understand my point of view.

 

Again.. Only thing I'm nay saying is that I dont see these pistons making a 7hp gain with no supporting mods.  Its the same as saying by boring your cylinders out to 66mm you'll pick up 7hp.

 

Now, if I'm thinking about this correctly.  these pistons would allow for ported stock stroke motors to jump up to a 4mil long rod with minor changes.  Since the port timings are all staying the same?

 

I think that's what needed to be clarified the whole time. 

 

If these are a set of custom pistons, who has the rights to them?  Has the owner made the design public?

 

Wiseco has a very strict privacy policy.  They won't allow you to buy someone else's design if they ask to keep it private.  In most instances, they require a run of 8-10 pistons or so before they'll even make them for you.  I haven't seen this personally, but I have heard of an instance where a guy got his hands on another builder' piston, derived the dimensions, and called Wiseco to have some made.  They wouldn't accept his order because it showed up in whatever system they use as a private design.

[Starwriter]

I have an honest question for somebody that REALLY knows what goes on inside a 2 stroke. We all know that when the piston is on it's way down, it is creating positive pressure in the bottom end. This pressure builds higher and higher until the transfers open and the AFM flows through the transfers. At this point, the reeds are still closed. When the piston is at BDC, the reeds are still closed. The piston then starts moving upward, and at some point, negative pressure is created in the bottom end, pulling the reeds open. In my mind, negative pressure in the bottom end can not be achieved until the transfers close at about 60 degrees ABDC. So, here's the question. There is obviously no flow immediatly at BDC. When does flow into the bottom end actually start?

[registered user]

When does flow into the bottom end actually start?

i dont think theres a exact answer for that. if your not dropping the cylinder pressure fast enough you may not have much inflow untill the piston has covered the transfers and well on its way up. shitty pipe design, not enough blowdown, transfers that dont flow well etc. but its been said that a well designed system can start pulling through the reeds somewhere around bdc

[locogato11283]

This post was nothing more than advertising, plain and simple.

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

I have an honest question for somebody that REALLY knows what goes on inside a 2 stroke. We all know that when the piston is on it's way down, it is creating positive pressure in the bottom end. This pressure builds higher and higher until the transfers open and the AFM flows through the transfers. At this point, the reeds are still closed. When the piston is at BDC, the reeds are still closed. The piston then starts moving upward, and at some point, negative pressure is created in the bottom end, pulling the reeds open. In my mind, negative pressure in the bottom end can not be achieved until the transfers close at about 60 degrees ABDC. So, here's the question. There is obviously no flow immediatly at BDC. When does flow into the bottom end actually start?

 

 

Actually if you think about it as a whole process, when the reeds snapped shut there was an Air Fuel charge caught between the motor side of the reeds and the piston. That charge is still under pressure (the same pressure that pushed all the other A/F mixture up the transfers)

As soon as the piston intake windows line up with the actual intake (as piston nears BDC) flow begins due to that charge having stored pressure of it's own. So there IS flow even as the piston stops and changes direction at BDC.

In reality, not ALL the fresh air and fuel make it up the transfers. There is always a raw fuel/air charge in the bottom end. Having a motor with a section of it's cycle that DOESN'T involve an intake of exhaust action just leaves a gap in the resonance action. (Like a cell phone signal breaking up during a conversation)

That's why you want all the chances for the motor to breath/exhale almost non-stop.

 

 

 If these are a set of custom pistons, who has the rights to them?  Has the owner made the design public?

 

 

 

This is a NEW design built by Wiseco for the distributor. (Not Minkia and NOT a one off custom run) 

Minkia is simply a vendor who saw the potential and bought up nearly the entire first batch.

So for now Minkia is the only vendor. But he does not have exclusive rights. So the Distributor will be selling them direct in the near future.

 

Is the design public? Well YEAH….we're talking about it aren't we? (All the specs of this new design have been released)

Who's the Distributor/designer? Well I'm told I'm just a nobody….but even I know.   Won't take long for people to find out.  Many of you run his gear now…….  

 

We have 2 sets of these in house right now and I'm working on getting a third set for myself. (I think the first set will hit the dyno NEXT weekend.) We'll see…….

Edited June 28, 2014 by WINDYCITYJOHN400

[sprinklerman]

This post was nothing more than advertising, plain and simple.

Minky?

[shanYE west]

I'm still waiting to hear who designed these..

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

Shanye your a big player in Michigan.

 

How do we have 2 sets of these in house for testing and you're still wondering who designed them?

 

He's in Michiagn and a lot of you already run some of his parts……..

 

(No it's NOT minky) HE was just smart enough to see what these could be and bought up damn near the whole batch.

 

Doesn't really matter to you though. You don't run a piston this small. LOL

[shanYE west]

I have a idea.. but there only a few that I consider "credible"

[n2otoofast4u]

This post was nothing more than advertising, plain and simple.

FACT.....

 

But, while we're having fun let's talk about bottom of the piston cooling and wrist pin lubrication affects that a window provides oh so very well. Is this affect more of a benefit or less of a benefit? Is it maybe MORE of a benefit than the dream that they add hp?

 

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