BitchenBanshee Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 ok.. I have a question for you! Why the heck can't one of the head companies make a head with non-changable domes, larger water jackets, and takes the normal head gasket.... It would be soooo much easier to just buy a head that was cut for 18cc domes or whatever and just use the stock style gasket. I HATE THOSE FREAKING O-RINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so sick of fighting leaks with that freakin noss head! Now I'm not saying that the noss head is worse than pro-design or some of the others. I think that all of them POS's that use O-Rings have the problem..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 Torque it right it wont leak, id rather change a 40 dollar dome than a 240 dollar head to change cc's, ive been using o-rings on both my shee's for ages, never had a leak, and ill bet not many others have as well, and David at Noss is going to answer your post with a humble apoligetic reply, but im thinking you didnt install it right (you rub grease in them so they seat correctly) and if any heads torqued unevenly it will leak, (there is a torque pattern, stamped in your stock head) or we could take a shot in the dark and say that his CNC machine milled one uneven?, the head you described is a milled stock head, fixed domes milled for a certain compression, stock gasket, 60 bucks a pop, you could get a shaved 0.10, 0.20, 0.30, and 0.40 for the price of a good aftermarket head, ream the coolant paths and go that route....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitchenBanshee Posted November 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 I always follow torque patterns and use grease so I know there shouldn't be a problem with that. I was at one time switching from 21cc domes to 18cc domes when I rode in the sand. The problem is that about 1/3 of the time it would leak. I would have to take everything apart, re-grease the rings, and torque everything down again. Now most of the time once it seated, it didn't leak. When I'd take it apart to change the domes the bastard would leak again! I know that Noss is not to blame, as all of the head companies have the same design... It just seems that a better design could be made that utilizes less o-rings. Lets face it.. It would probably take 1/3rd of the time to install a stock style head as it would an aftermarket style head!! Again dlnoss I am not flaming you!! Just trying to think out of the box!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton eyed Joe Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 I've thought about building a head this way, but then I took a look at things like this There are a few others building heads, and none of them do this type of head currently that I know of. I think if anyone was going to do it this way Noss would. I like the idea personally, but I don't think there is much of a market for it. I think that is the reason you don't see it. To pump out a $150 dollar head to not sell any won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitchenBanshee Posted November 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 I know I would buy one!!! Remember you can still shave the head! So if you buy one that is cc'd for 19cc's and end up not likeing it.. You can still shave it down! Of course you cant go the other way though (or possibly they can make a head gasket that is thicker if you wish to go up in cc's) I would think that engineering a head this way would allow larger water jackets with the stock head studs. Since some of the water volume is taken up by misc machining needed for the Noss style head. If someone makes one you can count me in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sksummers Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 Sounds like something is wrong, I've pulled a billet head dozens of times, sometimes replacing the rings, and others re-using them. To date I have NEVER had a coolant leak. I don't change my domes often but I still like the idea, even on a single cylinder. Plus it is much easier for me to cut my own custom domes on the billet heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 yep somethings not right with your head. You shouldnt have any leaks.... ever. My nosshead has been on for 3 years now and it never leaks, its been off about 4 times in those past 3 years and she never leaks. This past summer I had an O-ring blow out, but I just popped a new one in and its been good so far. There's a possiblity that your O-ring grooves were not cut deep enuf. Davie Noss, how deep should the O-rings grooves be ??? And like the others said, if you want a head that uses a stock head gasket, and doesnt have interchangable domes, then just get your stock head shaved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlnoss Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 One of the main benefits of the head with changable domes is the versatility (sp?)of being able to change the domes to suit your conditions. From a manufacturing standpoint, I can machine any contour I desire with a CNC turning center on removable dome. Doing the same on a one-piece head would be much more difficult. Without giving it a lot of thought, I can't think of how a true one-piece, liquid-cooled head could be machined that would have any cooling capacity. I have seen very few instances of orings leaking and in every case there was a manufacturing flaw in the head and/or dome or in the installation or the way the engine was assembled. It looks like you are using a Pro Design head. I would be happy to check it out and see if I can help figure out the problem if you want to send it to me. If the domes sit too far up in the head so they aren't pressed against the cylinder, or the oring grooves are too deep, shallow, narrow, or wide they can fail to seal properly. I machine my oring grooves .050 deep +.002 (-).004, and .085 wide +(-).005 Some of the heads on the market use less orings than others. I designed and tested several heads before marketing my current design. By eliminating the 'base' piece, I could have saved some orings but would have sacrificed some strength and dome support by doing so. -David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitchenBanshee Posted November 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 I forgot to change my sig. I do have a noss head that I bought a year ago.... I'll take a straight edge to it and check the grooves to see if I have a problem. I would love to use a stock head, but the shee seems to overheat more with my stock shaved head... Ideally I want a stock head, shaved, and larger waterjackets. But like you said, probably too hard to engineer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erbilabuc Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 Could it be that you are not taking the gas tank off(like you are supposed to) and the o-rings are falling out of place because of the extreme change in weather? This is the only reason I can think of that your o-rings are not sitting right. How long has it been leaking and why do you now adress your problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlnoss Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 I'm sorry, I guess I didn't read your post very thoroughly. Your post said Noss but the sig didn't. I wish you would have called when you first had the problem. We probably could have saved you some frustration. If the leak is in the dome area, check to see if the edge is dented. They are fragile along the edge. If it's a 'Stock Stud' head leaking up through the studs, make sure the bottom of the nut is smooth and put a little silicone on the thread before putting the nuts on. I have found the dimension of the stock studs can vary somewhat in diameter. Call me if you still have a problem. If there are any problems or defects with the head, I will fix or replace it. It's pretty rare but not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintoxicated Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Just put your head on last week and went for a test drive this weekend, Clean looks and solid design, and I didn't have to change any studs. Very satisfied so far. Although I did not install by myself the O-rings etc look prettys imple and straight forward. And at least now I won't have to replace a gasket every time I rebuild. The O-rings look like they seal much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlnoss Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 IMO, orings do seal better than traditional head gaskets. They are much more forgiving of incorrect torque and sequence. An oring seal also allows better cooling because there is metal-to-metal contact of the cylinders, head shell and domes. A head gasket acts as an insulator causing differential temperatures and heat expansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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