Sluggish

[peewee2479]

I have a problem with the throttle response on my 96 banshee. It has pro circuits, boysen rad valves , pro design filter, 290 main jets, 1 1/2 turns out on the air screw, plus i have 2, 2"x2" holes cut in the air box lid, no tors hooked up and no parking brake. For some reason it doesnt want to have snappy throttle response. If I am in third going around a turn I have to slip the clutch to get the R's up to get some power. Has good compression, and as far as I know the pilots are stock and the needle is in stock position.

[screamin_banshee_2003]

what size of pilot jets are you using?

[BenBB]

You might try adjusting the needle clip position leaner (move clip up towards the blunt end) or richer (move clip down towards the pointy end).

[peewee2479]

I am about positive they are stock. I'm not sure on how to even get them out and check what size they are.

[Banchetta]

The pro circuits on my shee liked a richer needle position (one notch) and definately larger pilots.....You must have a hard time starting it w/ stock pilots....Granted, you won't get rid of all that hesitation, thats the powerband of those pc pipes and the reason why I don't recommend them for trails or sand pits. But you can get some of it out w/ the jetting...you should notice a better response w/ the air screws .5 turn out from seated. I'd get a set of 27.5 pilots and try different air screw settings after... make sure you raise the needle one notch by lowering the clip 4th slot from the top....you have to pull the spring back from the top of the slides and shake the gold clip out, then the cable will be able to come off and you'll see two philip screws on the top of the slides, take them out and the needles will come out of the slides...

[BenBB]

Good one Banchetta, I missed that: larger pilots for sure.

[Banchetta]

Good one Banchetta, I missed that: larger pilots for sure.

Hey Ben, I was just curious, you always like a leaner needle and richer pilots then I'd normally suggest. Is that common in your area on most pipes??? I've tried larger pilots (27.5) on about 7 different pipes and none of them like it exept the Pc pipes....most shees in my area usually like the richer needle to...just curious if our areas are that much different in jetting....

[peewee2479]

Thanks Banchetta, I,m gonna try to change them the first chance I get. I'll let ya now how it goes.

[BenBB]

I've been wondering the same thing Banchetta, heh.

 

I'm mostly going by my experience on my '96, and from all the other posts I've read over the years...

 

When I ported my reed cages I HAD to go leaner on the needle, it was a total dog. That one clip position made a world of difference, and from what others have posted, aftermarket reeds/cages in general like a leaner clip position (I know Boyeson makes that recommendation). So whenever someone lists reeds or cages, I suggest one clip leaner on the needle as a starting point.

 

The pilots are about the same, it seems like everyone that knew what they were doing would suggest at least a 30 pilot for pipes. One of my first mods was a single K&N, and I wound up going up from 190 mains to 260 mains; way richer than most people suggested but it ran perfect and the plug chop was spot on (plug chops where I started at 230's was dead lean). So when I got Fatty's I knew I'd need larger pilots, just to be sure I made some runs with stock pilots and bigger mains, and sure enough it got HOT. I went straight to 32.5 pilots and it ran perfect, in fact I had to go down one size on the mains and again got a perfect plug chop. When I race close to sea level (I'm at 3500'), I run 35 pilots and it's just right. I don't know if there's really a direct correlation between pilot and main size (like, say 25 pilots for 200-250 mains, 27.5 for 250-300 mains, etc.) but it seems like most combinations we see here are between 300 and 340 or so on the mains, so unless it looks like they'll be close to 400 mains I don't suggest larger than 30 pilots. I usually recommend a 30 pilot for pipes, especially if they have a single or dual K&N, and if they have a foam filter with the lid on they are probably fine with stock pilots...I guess the only time I'd suggest 27.5's is with a foam filter and no lid.

 

Anyway, I try to advise on the rich side for the mains to start with, since most people can tell when it's boggy on top, but with each machine and application being different (sand riding as you know puts a lotta load on a motor) you never know. And mine really likes richer jetting than most (370 mains, 32.5 pilots right now, not even ported), and I admit I tend to keep it jetted on the rich side, but I know it's more an exception than the rule. Most of my riding is wide open, either dunes or TT, so a tad rich doesn't hurt at all.

 

So I guess I don't have as much direct experience as you do on the pilots so I tend to advise on the rich side to be safe, I could be way off but hopefully I'm close and if anything don't advise something that could cause a lean condition. With any luck I'll have my RZ motor together in a few months and I'll have another victim, err, testbed for experimenting on jetting. She might not be quite the fuel whore as my '96 is, heh.

[Banchetta]

Thats amazing how rich yours is running...I agree that the reeds will run it richer. I run my mids on the richest setting w/ boysen reeds...but thats my shee. I raised my friends shee w/ fmf golds to the richest setting and it woke up tremendously. I was amazed, but when he put boysen petals in, it fell on its face. Drop the needles to the 4th clip from the blunt end and it woke up again.. any other setting leaner would make it hesitate at lower rpms before the powerband. Most shees in my area like the 4th clip position w/ reeds and richest setting w/o reeds....I've also tried the 27.5 and 30 pilots in several shees and none of them liked it exept the pc pipes...(never jetted in toomeys or cpi personally) I think the high revs tend to like a richer pilot then the mids.... the richer pilot does help the shee start first kick when cold, but has a slight hesitation when I whack the throttle. My friend had the same problem w/ his sst's. He had 30 pilots. I adjusted his air screws and it ran better, but still wasn't right, the air screws liked to be at 3 turns out. He dropped to 27.5's and it got better, but still liked the air screws out at 3 turns. He dropped back to stock and it has a nice snap to the throttle response and low end.....but who knows, I wonder if the desert riding is affecting this also. A motor w/ a load on it will require more fuel, then a motor that spins easier......