lowidenfast Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 I just upgraded from stock reeds to Vforce 4's and, at the same time, I swapped my Toomey 2 into 1 w/ foam filter + outerwear for an aluminum air box (no lid) and a large K&N w/ outerwear. The addition of the VF4's SHOULD equate to more airflow, right? I figured, if anything, i would be running lean after adding the VF4's but, I think I am running rich now. The air filter is nice and clean and the carbs are perfectly synced but it just seems/sounds a little rich, especially on the pilot jet. I don't have a way to do a proper plug chop right now but the plugs look pretty black, not wet but definitely black instead of the elusive cardboard brown color. I also noticed that it wouldn't crank with the choke on like I used to have to do. It cranks right up from being cold with no choke now. Unfortunately, i don't know what size pilot is in it. but the air screws were 3 turns out, which I believe is about the max you can go before you need to swap for a smaller jet, right? I know the mains are 280's and I believe the needle jet is set on the 2nd position from the top (one away from the richest setting as I understand it). I have T5 pipes, carbs are stock mikunis and the engine internals are bone stock with no port job etc, the rest of my mods are listed in my signature although I don't think anything else matters. Elevation is ~800 feet and summer time temps here are between 75 - 90 degrees, although it was pretty cool and humid here today as we had some storms pass through - about 65 degrees if I had to guess I'm mainly wondering if the addition of the airbox could have restricted the airflow that much more than the Toomey set up causing a rich condition even though I went from stock flappers to VF4's at the same time? I have never jetted anything before but have been reading up on the topic quite a bit lately so I'm just wondering what people think before I start messing with anything. I did order a set of 27.5 and 30 pilot jets on a whim not knowing what is in it now. Not sure if you can tell much about the plugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowidenfast Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 I guess the topic line doesn't "make" any sense... damn these fat fingers of mine! I should add, one would think that you would feel quite a difference going from stock reeds to VF4's, especially since I have all of the other standard bolt on power adders to compliment the reeds but I am not sure I can tell much difference right now. I'm thinking that has to be due to improper jetting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 You are LEAN! You need to get some #30 pilots in that thing before you burn it up. Buy the way….that aluminum air box will bite you in the ass sooner or later. (FREE advice here….feel free to ignore it) I'd just switch to K&N pods with Outerwear's. But you'll figure it out in you're own time. Top clip is the LEANEST setting. (Lowering the clip RAISES the needle) 3 turns out on the airscrew is the LEANEST setting. (You always want to be between 1/2 turn out and 2 1/2 turns out.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowidenfast Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Well, good news is that I have some #30 pilots on hand here. Why would my plugs be black if the bike is running lean? I'm not doubting what you are saying, just trying to wrap my mind around all of this Also. why will the airbox bite me in the ass? I have it secured to the coolant overflow bracket so it isn't going to come loose or anything if that's what you mean. As much as I hate it, I can't avoid the mud in the trails where I ride so the open filter scares the shit out of me. I still have the Toomey so I guess I could always put it back on and just use the air box when it is going to be muddier than usual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowidenfast Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 WINDYCITYJOHN - I just read back over some of the jetting information I have and it hit me, I thought I was running out of gas earlier and swapped it over to reserve to get home but that's a sign of running lean. It never occurred to me at the time. I guess I'll pull the pilots and put the 30's in there (I am thinking it has 27.5's now) and maybe I'll go ahead and drop the clip down to the middle notch on the needle while I'm at it and see how it runs from there. I'll go ahead and order some different size pilots too. I'm thinking that, since I have 280's, i'll get a size lower and a few sizes up just to have some extra options on hand. Does that sound about right? One thing I am unsure of here - Warming up the engine, then installing new plugs and hauling ass through all gears and cutting the engine @ WOT and cutting away the threads (plug chop) is just going to tell me the condition of my main jet, and not really reveal much about the others - is that correct? If so, how exactly do i determine whether the pilot and needle are rich/lean/just right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry's Shee Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Do a part throttle plug chop/read. Same process except hold throttle at 1/4 or 1/2. Maybe rig something for a stop for consistant opening. Might have to drag brake to keep load on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowidenfast Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Thanks Larry. I guess I should do this before making any changes, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowidenfast Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Well, which is worse - using an air box or potentially sucking mud/water in through the filter? Also, the left side pipe gets into the filter despite all of my efforts to re-work it. It has heat wrap on it but it was still melting my Toomey set up. All I know to do is to somehow straighten the bend where it passes by the carbs/intake out a little but that's prob not such a good idea either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 #1 - I can tell you what pilot you need in my sleep. #2 - you have your needle and airscrew as lean as possible. So you are basically running on nothing but main. Your main might end up TOO rich once we add more fuel with pilot and needle. Or you might be pretty spot on with the main. #3 - start with #30 pilot, needle in -3, airscrew 1 1/2 turns out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowidenfast Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Zilla - are you saying it is so restrictive that, even with the addition of the VF4's, it would cause me to run rich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowidenfast Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Thanks John. I'll do what you suggest first chance I get. Stupid birthday party I have to go to is going to keep me from getting my hands on it tonight! I can't wait to get this thing ripping and take it back out with my friends. They all complained about riding behind me in the trails because they felt like I was roosting them on purpose LOL. 4 stroke guys just don't understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Well, which is worse - using an air box or potentially sucking mud/water in through the filter? .. Using that airbox. Forget that Toomey mess. Put K&N filters with Outerwear's right on your carbs. As for your worries about mud and water......you worry too much. What's worse...getting your filters splashed? (Ever heard the phrase Water off a ducks back? ) Or picture what water would do if you dumped a 1/2 gallon of water into the top of that airbox. (Here is a hint....the box FEEDS it ALL right into your carbs.) The LAST guy who didn't take my advice on that exact airbox went out and hydrolocked his motor with an airbox full of water. (I think he ended up doing a full rebuild.) Plus I have repeatedly dyno proven they rob HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowidenfast Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Well shit, I guess I need to order yet another intake set up. I'm beginning to accumulate quite a collection of failed parts LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowidenfast Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Damn Zilla, I guess I was being way too cautious. I kept locking down on the binders and coming to a complete stop at mud and either putting through it slowly or finding a way around it though the woods. I guess I will put my Toomey set up back on for now and order some pods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowidenfast Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 OK, I just ordered pods with outwerwears and larger mains from FAST. I guess I'll just put the #30 pilots in and move the clip to the middle position on the needle, then wait for the order to come in before I do anything else. Might as well have the filters I plan to use installed before I do any jetting. Jeff agreed with #30 pilots and moving he clip down on the needle as well. Thanks for all of the advice guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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