camatv Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 hell some big dm's only make 120 hp.. thats about the same as a cub.. so acording to the net they suck to huh.. whats not talked about is the tq difference or how long they make that 100+hp.. the only time my 535 was on the dyno at 8500rpm it made 100 hp.. sorry i dont have sheets for that.. and most likely you will not find any if much vids of me on my bike on the net cause no one likes getting smoked by a 300lb fat ass on a 4-6 year old motor doin tha stanky legg.... the 535 is parked for now. the 485 i am reworking to more of a drag orientated motor. i'm sure it wont have much for the better running dm's but i will be able to hot lap it.. i cannot rember getting beat by any 421 out on the dunes.. even some from across the country/.. the most fun i had with a pv motor was tanners lil 400 that thing ripped!! it would come out of the hole very easily and would pull on top so hard it was crazy. i watched it run away from a few pretty large motors.. it had more in it for sure. but now its in a trail / rider bike. same port layout same motor, i cannot think of anyone that has taken a high revv drag cub and put it in a stock chassis with trinity pipes and a 4 over and said it was a fun trail bike.... cubs are fun dont get me wrong. but i prefer the cheeta casting.. of course this is just my experience based on what i have learned playing with these motors for about 5 +years now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fappy'97 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 i cannot rember getting beat by any 421 out on the dunes.. even some from across the country/.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coupelx Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 reality doesnt matter cam unless you have papers and numbers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinklerman Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 reality doesnt matter cam unless you have papers and numbers!..for some people. You and I ..and many others have seen cams "junk" cheetah run and prefer to base our opinions on how stuff performs when the sand starts flying. Sent from a van down by the river Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarRacing Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Cam you are full of poo about your HP number. Lol. I was there but I will keep your secret safe. That thing is making good power. I dont know why anyone would think that a cheetah casting couldnt make as much power as a cub. I know of a 485 cheetah that made 108hp on gas and had power everywhere. Dont think for a second just cuz you havent seen a good cheetah that they arent out there. I havent seen many 421s run with cams cheetah. It runs very well. Here is a vid of his black cheetah and my red 421 cub racin a pack of cubs and much bigger DMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10milmike Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Yeah? Show me proof. (I had mine for a long time and had multiple well known builders try to improve it. And my 10 mill 465 cub made more power AND the same TORQUE as "Nickisgod's" F.A.S.T. prepped 485 4 mill Cheetah.) And let's not use CAM as an example since he's had 350's that beat much bigger motors, won't post any dyno curves of his "correctly set up Cheetahs" and has no timeslips. And most of all embrace that I really only focus on 4 mill cheetahs for well researched reasons. You know of a strong 4mill Cheetah with powervalves?....let me know. Powervalve motors have been used in watercraft and snowmobiles for a LONG TIME. So let's not start thinking that secret magic port concepts are just now finding the light of day. If you can list a builder who a person can buy a cheetah from that will make more power than a cub....I'm all ears. Seriously! Name these people who have "figured them out". John I have Time slips and dyno sheets ofba properly set up cheetah. Mine is a gas. Not alky. Been going to track alot this year. Inhave beat 4 mil cubs on NOS. 10 mil cubs on alky. So your theory is wrong yes I understand you had problems in the past they're set up properly. Have fun beating one. I know you are a cheetah hater. I can can not wait for your 2 page response. I know of a 535 making 145 on alky. Tonsnof work want into to it. But it lays high number and killer 1/8 mile times. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy note 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10milmike Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Here is my 535 on GAS. Since this dyno the transfers have been changed. With this dyno the transfers were not even touched. Have 1/8 time slips also. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy note 3 Edited February 5, 2014 by 10milmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 So here's your baseline 114.66 HP divided by 535cc = .214 HP per CC 63.23 TQ divided by 535cc = .118 TQ per CC Mailman's 492 Cheetah 104.47 HP divided by 492cc = .212 HP per CC 52.63 TQ divided by 492cc = .106 TQ per CC [ see how the HP ratios of the 4 mill closely match your 10 mill...but your 10 mill crank gives you more torque] http://www.atvdragracers.com/forum/attachments/dyno-results-33%3B/4488d1294295071-10mill-cub-gas-cub_10mill_gas_1.jpg Let's take this link from above and compare ^^^ 465 10 mill Cub on gas. 10 mill Cub baseline 112.21 HP divided by 465cc = .241 HP per CC 59.20 TQ divided by 465cc = .127 TQ per CC So if your Cheetah (with YOUR power ratios) was only as big as a 10 mill cub (465)….your motor would only make 99.51 HP and 54.87 TQ Yet, if that Cub motor (with the Cub power ratios) was as big as your Cheetah (535)…..it would be making 128.93 HP and 67.94 TQ So the math says (In THIS example) that the Cub motor makes 13% more HP per CC and 10% more torque PER CC than your Cheetah. (both on gas) See why everyone says the Cub is the best bang for the buck? The OP wanted to know if he should jump into a 4 mill Cheetah or run a 10 mill Cub…….my answer was based on fact not hate. A 10 mill cub would only need 11 more CC's (476) to match your big 535. And rebuilds are WAY cheaper…….NONE of what I just said is an opinion of mine. This is just basic math gathered from widely available facts. I even provided the link……. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Look at it in a positive light Mike….you are out tuning the guys you're racing one way of another. (Chassis, clutch, tire, gear, etc.) It doesn't mean you can't be fast or win…..it just means your starting from a disadvantage. You're dragging almost 60cc's along for the ride and paying top dollar for the pistons to do it. I'm not bashing you or your motor. I'm only saying it's not the platform I would personally start with and I'm explaining why in detail. I'm glad you found success with your motor. Hell, remember when you were (strongly) telling me how bad ass it was back before you knew it was only making 90's for power? Now it's made a big jump and running even better. Nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10milmike Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Yes John took me lots of learning with my motor. Turning is everything. Like I said I find it funny that a am beating 421 cubs on Nos. And I am fat ass 220lb and these guys weigh 160 tob180 lbs power to weight ratio. I will post my new dyno sheet as soon as I format it to lab top its now 119 hp and 66 tq. On Gas. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy note 3 Edited February 5, 2014 by 10milmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m671054 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Just observing but, Windy have you seen numbers from a 10 supercub that support your calculated increases? i have been under the impression that the smaller bore actually helps the cub vs cheetah. if someone has 10 supercud sheets post them please it will compare better to a 535 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Yes John took me lots of learning with my motor. Turning is everything. Like I said I find it funny that a am beating 421 cubs on Nos. And I am fat ass 220lb and these guys weigh 160 tob180 lbs power to weight ratio. I will post my new dyno sheet as soon as I format it to lab top its now 119 hp and 66 tq. On Gas. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy note 3 Hey Mike, I'm totally with you on that. You should feel great about how you are doing. I follow all your posts. You have changed your gearsets to adjust your final drive ratios, made big strides in your clutch tuning, done major research in your tire choices, etc. The facts are there. You're winning! Now the real issue in the Cub on NOS is just throwing power at the bike and doing none of the truly vital things needed to win. For example....An unported 421 cub can feel strong, yet have the wrong jetting and only be making 80HP. Jet it correctly and it can hit 95HP. Who is to say if that guy has a well tuned Cub BEFORE he hits the NOS? Who's to say the NOS is dialed in well? If his clutching is wrong he might be losing all his gains to bad clutch management. You are in a position to be proud of. You're beating Alky and NOS bikes and doing it on gas. (That has to piss them off. LOL) Plus you're doing it with your tuning talent. Those skills can go with you from bike to bike. Those other guys will just keep buying bigger and bigger motors to try to catch you since they don't have your crewchief skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10milmike Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 The guys running 4 mil on nos t is a good tuner. Has has his nos dailed in good. He gets me out of the whole and about to half track. Then my shitty 535 just pulls on him. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy note 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10milmike Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Ftw cheetahs blow. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy note 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 This slip should provide some information into the mix. This was done in 2008, rider weight 230 lbs. stock chassis weighing 325 lbs. 443 Cub on race gas. It was set-up for 1/4 mile, but has been substantially faster in all incremental times since. I forgot to add the motor dyno'd at 97 hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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