Dome Size?

[Oilsmoke]

Blue does your shee do 100 mph?

[Blue Duece]

Blue does your shee do 100 mph?

id have to say Yes Sir it does, depending on gearing of course

[Oilsmoke]

you have a pic of your baby?

I like to see it.

[Blue Duece]

you have a pic of your baby?

I like to see it.

yeah i do im gonna take some fresh ones and post them with a review of passion's motor, i just have to get this image station thing goin so i can post pics, there site is not geared for my mac but i just ordered a program that will let me run a windows OS on my mac.....

[BSPolice]

Boonman, did you even read my post? Which part about an engine making a moderate 145 psi needing race fuel to not detonate did you not understand? Im basing this on what he said, not me. His web-site say's added performance AND reliability,his words, not mine. What part about having to run race fuel is reliable at any compression ratio...answer, none. Exhaust duration?, tell me what the hell that has anything to do with it. RPM is hardly an issue at all where detonation is concerned at all, look it up.

[Blue Duece]

Boonman, did you even read my post? Which part about an engine making a moderate 145 psi needing race fuel to not detonate did you not understand? Im basing this on what he said, not me. His web-site say's added performance AND reliability,his words, not mine. What part about having to run race fuel is reliable at any compression ratio...answer, none. Exhaust duration?, tell me what the hell that has anything to do with it. RPM is hardly an issue at all where detonation is concerned at all, look it up.

hey bs police, you seem to know your shit can you explain why psi yeilds power over a politicly correct combustion chamber?.....and in our last debate on this subject RKT mentioned that a correct combustion chamber would yeild more power than a ported motor, whats your spin on that, i find that statement incorrect but, ive only been riding 37 years so im kinda new to this mod your motor for power thing over correct combustion......thanks for your input......

[boonman]

Boonman, did you even read my post? Which part about an engine making a moderate 145 psi needing race fuel to not detonate did you not understand? Im basing this on what he said, not me. His web-site say's added performance AND reliability,his words, not mine. What part about having to run race fuel is reliable at any compression ratio...answer, none. Exhaust duration?, tell me what the hell that has anything to do with it. RPM is hardly an issue at all where detonation is concerned at all, look it up.

 

Yes sir I did read your post. I however think that you did NOT read mine. At least not with an understanding of it. Here's why. AGAIN

 

Now, you say a moderate engine making 145 PSI on a guage. now, I ask you, what is the port timing of this motor??? And you ask why exhaust duration has anything to do with it? well, if you have a high exhaust port, the amount of air that actually gets compressed into the top end will be less. Thus, making your compression guage read lower. Why in the hell is that hard for you to understand? Now, another point, RPM does have a factor in detonation. At low RPM, you may be able to get away with a certain amount of detonation. look it up, as you say. At higher RPM, it will become more apparent, and perhaps cause catastrophic failure if it is severe enough. Your cranking cold compression does not have a large factor in your determination of race fuel or not. if you know all about combustion and motors, you would know this. I am POSITIVE, that ANY respected builder will tell you that. Now, for proof of my point of losing compression on a guage when porting is done, ask anyone who has had porting done, and knew their compression before porting. Now, what is there compression when they got it back? Less if nothing else was changed. Why do you think the common thing was to get smaller domes when you get a motor ported? Are you trying to tell me that a stock motor with 16cc domes is going to have a lower compression than an aggressively ported motor with the same 16cc domes?? With respect to what you will find on a guage. As the piston is on it's upstroke, it is pushing the air/fuel mix up the cylinder with it. if the top of your exhaust port is higher than stock, (which would get the exhaust out quicker on the previous downstroke) than some of the mix will be lost out the pipe untill the piston travels high enough to effectively close this exhaust port off. It is then, and only then that the air starts to be compressed. So, mr policeman, I ask you, why would you ask about what exhaust timing has to do with compression numbers and the use of race fuel? Are you telling me that a drag ported motor with 145 PSI on the guage doesn't need race fuel? I beg to differ with you. Your cold compression should NOT be used to determine octane rating. I don't know how else to explain it...

 

Which part about an engine making a moderate 145 psi needing race fuel to not detonate did you not understand?

 

I fully understood it. He only mentioned a motor. So you have any idea about the porting configuration before you go shooting your fingers off???? I would like to know what your other screen name is. And I would like to see a heavily ported motor, at 145 PSI that doesn't run race fuel. I don't think there is one. 145 PSI on a stock motor is WAYYYYYYY different than a ported one....

[txblueshee]

PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT!!!!

 

 

MIke

[RK Tek]

Boonman and . ,

 

I guess we are in agreement (somewhat anyway).

 

Funny.. My 1st guess on who BSpolice really was was ole' boonman

 

Oh well....

 

Duece.. I would be happy to explain the reason for why what I am stating is true but I obviously have failed at that with you , at least through writing.

 

If you want to call me maybe I could do a better job.

 

Kelsey

[RK Tek]

Duece...

 

 

If you think that the BSpolice know what he is talking about.. you are sadly mistaken..

 

If you are using standard off the shelf domes on your 4mm stroker engine.. I can GAURANTEE you more power with a proper dome. Did I mention I would gaurantee it??

 

I would be very interested in knowing which engine builders you spoke with that informed you you did not need custom domes, FOR BETTER POWER, for a custom stroker engine. You mentioned it.. so please let's hear the builders that stated such.

 

Let me know

 

Kelsey

[BSPolice]

Just where does all this hostility come from Boonman? My orginal post didn't

 

even concern you, unless your real name is Kelsey. You are taking all of my

 

comments out of context, making assumptions, and making inaccurate statements

 

all at the same time. My focus was on the statements of performance and

 

reliability in the same package pure and simple. But since you have failed to

 

address that issue and have brought up all these others , lets discuss those.

 

Quote Boonman "Now, you say a moderate engine making 145 PSI on a guage.

 

now, I ask you, what is the port timing of this motor??? And you ask why

 

exhaust duration has anything to do with it? well, if you have a high exhaust

 

port, the amount of air that actually gets compressed into the top end will

 

be less".

That is an inaccurate statement. Exhaust port height doesnt decrease the

 

actual amount of air mixture that gets compressed, it simply decreases the

 

area in which it is to be compressed. The cfm capabilities of your intake

 

tract, reed characteristics, volumetric efficiency, transfer charge

 

direction, and tuning length and volume of your expansion chamber determines

 

how "much" air charge is to be compressed not where your exhaust port timing

 

is. When your exhaust port is waiting to be closed it rely's on your

 

expansion chamber and transfer designs to retain the charge, not where the

 

port closes.

 

Quote Boonman" At low RPM, you may be able to get away with a certain amount

 

of detonation. look it up, as you say. At higher RPM, it will become more

 

apparent, and perhaps cause catastrophic failure if it is severe enough. Your

 

cranking cold compression does not have a large factor in your determination

 

of race fuel or not."

That too is totally innacurate. Detonation is most prevelant at cruising

 

speeds and in situations where Manifold Absolute Pressure(MAP) is at its

 

highest, such as under extreme load at low rpm. Octane requirements actually

 

decrease with rpm. Ignition timing,air/fuel mixture, volumetric efficiency, MAP,air intake

 

temperature, sparkplug heatrange, cooling capacity of your cooling

 

system(including combustion chamber design),expansion chamber efficiency and

 

compression ratio are the main factors in detonation. A motor that detonates

 

itself apart at high rpm was detonating at low rpm, gauranteed.The fact that

 

it gave out at high rpm was because the combustion process was already so

 

unstable that the heat couldnt be released fast enough once the higher rpm

 

was achieved, causing the unstable combustion to feed off of itself at a

 

expotential rate up to the moment of destruction.

 

Quote Boonman"Now, for proof of my point of losing compression on a guage

 

when porting is done, ask anyone who has had porting done, and knew their

 

compression before porting."

Did I ever say that you dont lose compression after porting?...NO. I

 

referenced exhaust duration only, not porting, and I never said it would not

 

go down. I said the duration is irrelevent. And I explained why in a earlier

 

paragraph.

Quote Boonman"And I would like to see a heavily ported motor, at 145 PSI that

 

doesn't run race fuel." Doesnt run race fuel or doesn't need race fuel? Ok,

 

its called a Honda CR250, bone stock ported out to the max, makes much more

 

horsepower to cc ratio than most average Banshee motors and you can run the

 

bitch on pump gas all day long...mmmm...must have a pretty stable combustion

 

process, dont you think? And horsepower?...yeah, it's in there too.

Not everybody runs a drag motor and a "custom" combustion chamber might be in order

 

there. For the remaining 98 percent of Banshee riders, a stable combustion

 

process that makes good power is a much more marketable and desirable

 

commodity.

Quote BSPolice"My focus was on the statements of performance and reliability

 

in the same package pure and simple"...if you want to talk horsepower, I can

 

do that too. Just try not to bash me in the process, I have nothing against

 

you. I just cant stand BS, and this conversation was never directed torwards you.

[boonman]

I know it wasn't directed at me, however, i felt the need to jump in because noone seemed to get the jist of it. And you want to talk about a bike that (CR250 aforementioned) is designed to run on pump fuel. Yep, designed. Did they take a dome from an RM250 and throw it in there? Nope. So, therefore we can conclude that the dome in that bikes motor, FROM THE FACTORY was "custom" (and I am using that word loosely, because not many people use it in the right sense) designed by the engineers for that engine. And your statements about the pipe, and all that VE and what not, just simply makes you point out yourself that you are overlooking things here. We WERE talking about cold cranking compression Vs. octane requirement. NOW, it seems we are bringing running engine characteristics. The individual that started this thread was looking for a dome size that would be good for his bike. That seems to be a DREADED question on these forums.

 

well, if you have a high exhaust

port, the amount of air that actually gets compressed into the top end will

be less".

That is an inaccurate statement. Exhaust port height doesnt decrease the

actual amount of air mixture that gets compressed, it simply decreases the

area in which it is to be compressed.

 

How is my statement incorrect? Are you trying to tell me that you can kick over an engine fast enough to bring the pipes characteristics into play on a compression check, remember, (with the engine off). I highly doubt it. so, on a cold compression check, the exhaust port height would have ALOT to do with it. And it doesn't decrease necessarily speaking the are in which it is compressed in. if that was the case, why would squish be so vital in an engine's combustion chamber? The Head at TDC is maximum compression, is it not? compression STARTS taking place when the piston travels past the exhaust port. Is that not correct? So what you're trying to tell me is that if the exhaust port height, on a cold compression test was 30 degrees lower, that it wouldn't yield a higher compression value on the guage if nothing else was changed? And if the exhaust port height has nothing to do with the static compression, than why does the static compression drop on a ported motor? I would love to hear your theory on that. I am not being a dick here, just pointing out that things are getting overlooked ALOT and the subject changes quite frequently. And check back in with your real name please. I don't hide behind any names. I don't think you should either... I am not trying to cut you down, and I have no hostility. I apologize if my post came across as that way. i did not mean it in that manner. I just want the truth. Apparently though, some peeps can't handle it. And Deuce, Damn man, I wanna take your bike for a rip!!!!!!!! Also, I am by NO means defending RKT here. I have no affiliation, and find it funny that he thought I was you BS. Me and RKT have had our "discussions" in the past. But I have a firm belief on this. I would like to be corrected if I am wrong here.

The cfm capabilities of your intake

tract, reed characteristics, volumetric efficiency, transfer charge

direction, and tuning length and volume of your expansion chamber determines

how "much" air charge is to be compressed not where your exhaust port timing

is.

 

I do not disagree completely with this statement, however, in the context of a static compression check, this is not the case. On a static compression check, there is no combustion, therefore the pipe has no bearing on the equation. You could take the pipe off the motor, and the static compression would remain close to a number of that in which the pipe was on the motor.....

[boonman]

A motor that detonates

 

itself apart at high rpm was detonating at low rpm, gauranteed.

 

I forgot to address the detonation issue you brought up. You just basically echoed what I said, although in a clouded fashion. I did not say that detonation was not shown at lower RPM's. While it may be more NOTICEABLE, ie. pinging, that sort of business, does not mean that the risk is not greater at higher RPM's. And you said that in your reply. here:

The fact that

 

it gave out at high rpm was because the combustion process was already so

 

unstable that the heat couldnt be released fast enough once the higher rpm

 

was achieved, causing the unstable combustion to feed off of itself at a

 

expotential rate up to the moment of destruction.

 

Did you not? Exponential rate. Because heat is a player in detonation. After all, it is the heat that would melt a piston, and the detonation that would blow it apart, would it not? And the hotter things get, the more prone to pre-ignition you are. correct? So, if we have a motor that has a case of detonation, runnign at high RPM's, building heat, now we develop hot spots, which cause pre-ignition, which fuels the fire already started by the detonation and we have a catastrophic failure. Do we not? Oh, I also like the double spacing of your posts. It makes it that much easier to read especially for people like me who you look at as having feeble minds!!!! I am just trying to get the right info out here. not BS. So get to the policing, and get some correct info out here....

[brimstone92]

i cant believe i just sat here and read all that ....i'm gonna go ride now......

[Patriot Racing]

Lets say we apply a different angle to this all...and say something like would generic cookie cutter porting along the lines of something you buy right off the shelf run best for your style of riding???? (and the list can easily go on and on and on of fuel choice, engine config, elevation....)I think most people would rather quickly and assuredly say HECK NO!

 

Is porting suited for my style of riding going to work best for me. I think most people would rather quickly and assuredly sayd HECK YEAH!!!

 

Why wouldnt this same theory apply to heads and their design? There is no reason it doesnt. A custom designed head configuration is always going to bring more power and bring reliability with it. Im a little lost as to why everyone fights against this so hard.

 

I can come up with a hundred scenarios like the above deal with the porting example that everyone would immeadiately and very strongly say yes that matters, but when it comes to custom heads everyone fights against it so strongly.