94BansheeRider Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 I currently have 18cc domes installed on my ported, cool head 'shee with T5's. I noticed that a lot of people in here are running 20cc domes. What are the advantages and disadvantages of running 20's vs 18's? I have been told it is a compression issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlnoss Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 It depends on your porting. Since porting normally lowers compression, you can usually use smaller domes. It's best to check with the builder that did the porting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RK Tek Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 It depends on your porting. Since porting normally lowers compression, you can usually use smaller domes. This, IMHO, is so NOT TRUE! Basing dome selection on trapped compression ratio can get you into trouble very quickly. IMHO , of course! Kelsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlnoss Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 That's why I said It's best to check with the builder that did the porting. 94BansheeRider, I noticed your in Tulsa. Did someone in Tulsa do your porting? I'm just outside of Tulsa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broke Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 And so it starts.... broke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamin_Banshee Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 And so it starts.... broke My thoughts exactly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlnoss Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I should probably just ignore the topic but I don't want anyone at BHQ to think I don't watch the board and try to be helpful. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamin_Banshee Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 David, We all know you are here to help, and u have NUMEROUS times! I cant thank you enough for all the help u have given when someone is interested in a new head, or dome selection. The way you select domes works very well for the every day rider, and even race bikes. I run your domes in my Drag bike and will continue to do so... Kelsey does have very good points, but not everyone on the site is lookin to build the highest HP motor possible. Alot of ppl just want a little more power, not every ounce they can squeeze out of them. Like I said, thank you David for your help, I hope u continue to offer your advice and services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RK Tek Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Screaming Banshee... Thank you for not turning my "honest opinion" (note the word opinion) response into something it is not. 94 Banshee asked a question and I felt he got a incorrect answer. Nothing more!! This forum is directed at Performance shops. Performance shops are just that... performance shops.. meaning .. they know about engines and 2 stroke internal combustion and such. Just because a machine shop can make some performance parts does not make them experts at 2 stroke engines and internal combustion theory. NOTE: I am not directing this at ANYBODY.. just stating FACTS!! For example..If I was to go out and machine me up some wings for an airplane that will actually create lift and allow the plane to fly.. this does not make me an expert in aerodynamics and flight. It just means that I can machine out a part that will work for some applications. So what is the point of my ramblings... Well... if you frequent this site.. there are always questions being asked and the are always getting answered by one person or another. BUT a lot of the times the answers are incorrect .. BUT people take them as gospel. When somebody like, myself, sainty, or a few others contradicts the "gospel" they get "flamed" for having an" other than 'normal' answer" and then the thread growa with a bunch of name calling and nothing gets resolved. So, I guess my point is.. if you want just an answer, whether it be correct or not, then you will get one. BUT if you want a possibly more correct and pointed response to a specific question. then I suggest you aske an EXPERT in that field. whether that field be plumbing, heating, food, combustion etc. etc.. But the best answer will come from an expert in the field. You would not call a carpenter to plumb your new house. You would not order a hamburger in a Chinese resturant... would you? So, please do not take this post out of context.. You guys have been very successful at running me and others off this forum (for the most part).. but wrong information is just that.. wrong information. If you want wrong information.. then fine... get it. But I would suspect that most are looking for correct information and just because an outsider disagrees with a insider's view.. does not mean it is time to start a war against the outsider. Just take in the 2 views and decide for yourself what you want to believe.. Fair enough??? On another note.. my products are not designed at , how did you put it? "squeezing the most HP out of an engine" my products ARE designed at allowing for SAFE and reliable engine operation and adding some performance in there too. I still do not get why most on BHQ think that having a custom anything makes for MAX POWER! and loss in reliabiliy. When in fact.. it is quite the contrary.. a custom ANYTHING will be more tailered to the application and therfore; ADD (that's right ADD) reliability not remove it. Nuff said... I can't wait for the "flaming" Kelsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat_Head Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 I still do not get why most on BHQ think that having a custom anything makes for MAX POWER! and loss in reliabiliy. When in fact.. it is quite the contrary.. a custom ANYTHING will be more tailered to the application and therfore; ADD (that's right ADD) reliability not remove it. Mr TEK it has always been a pleasure reading you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94BansheeRider Posted November 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 I didn't realize this was going to get such a response . Noss, I do have a friend that does my engine porting and tuning on the side. I guess the real point of my question is: why porting? Don't get me wrong, I love the way my bike runs. It's like a bat out of hell!!! What are the advantages and disadvantages of porting a motor. I have some new carbs, and a Vforce3 intake system waiting to be installed. At the same time, I will have the cylinders ported some more. I love going fast!!! I have had this bike for 9 years, and have yet to blow the motor. I have broken some gears, but nothing with the top end. I think after market mods are as reliable as the person doing the work. I normally do alot of the work myself, but when it comes to the finer aspects, I tend to turn that over to more knowledgable people. This site kicks ass!! Thanks for any and all help. What the hell does "IMHO" stand for anyway ?? Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlnoss Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 94BansheeRider, I know several builders and tuners in Tulsa. I thought maybe it was someone I know. I don't want to say much more here because I don't want to perpetuate any BS. Call me if you want. I'll tell you what I know and I'll admit what I don't know and refer you to someone in that case if you want. I work pretty closely with some very sharp and unpretentious builders and tuners. -David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamin_Banshee Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Kelsey, No flaming form me, like I said, you do have valid points. I am not here to run you off, your opinions are just as important as the next guy. The only thing that does get my attention when this topic comes up is, most of the ppl that ask for domes size we answer correctly. The domes size is usually just a general answer, based on mods, elevation etc etc, not porting specs- This method has proven itself to work time and time again, has it not? It has been done for years.... Please do teach us more, as we all love to learn something new... 94BansheeRider, IMHO stands for - In My Hoest Opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RK Tek Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Screaming Banshee.... The domes size is usually just a general answer, based on mods, elevation etc etc, not porting specs- This method has proven itself to work time and time again, has it not? It has been done for years.... I have to respectfully disagree. The method is not proven because most do not know what changed when they added a new domes size. In fact..many on here state that they felt no power difference but it aided in cooling and looked good. Consider this... I just did a Banshee head for a customer and his engine builder ordered the head. I asked for application , fuel req, and deck ht. On the deck ht he told me standard deck ht. So, head went out.. customer put it on and the piston was smacking the head on the first run. So, he called me and asked me what was going on. I called the engine builder and asked him what he did to the cylinders. He told me what he did and all seemed fine. Then I asked the builder "did you deck any off the cylinders?" Response..... "Oh yah, I took .020" off the base of each jug" BINGO!! we have a winner!! So, point being... "proven over and over?" yes, maybe with some engines but not all. Would this problem have surfaced with some of the "off the shelf " domes/heads?.. I think so, if the piston would not have been smacking the head... the performance woud have been in the toilet FOR SURE!! So you state This method has proven itself to work time and time again, has it not? It has been done for years.... Well so were piston port engines for decades.. but they have been replaced by reeds and are condsidered obsolete in the industry. So, just because something has been around for years does not make it best option (By the Way.. I had the 1st Banshee head that utilizes the stock stud). Hell, if people did not improve on existing technology.. we would still be running steam engines. How fast would that be in 300ft? Please do teach us more, as we all love to learn something new AHHH... didn't we already try that a few months back? I do not remember if your were part of that or not.. In any case... it seems that people on this forum only hear and believe what they want to believe and will not open up to new information. Which only hurts themselves and their engine's performance. So, while I would like to help.. you can not help those who do not really want to be helped.. make sense? A small example... I notice in some of the signatures on here people using 15cc , 16cc and 17cc domes. OH MY GOD! I can gaurantee you HUGE power gains from throwing those domes in the toilet!!! Especailly those with the 15 and 16cc domes!! You guys are killing your crank train and robbing your engine of some serious power!!!! DESPITE what the seat of the pants tells you. But I suspect I will get "flamed" for stating such WHY... SEE ABOVE PARAGRAPH!! Long story short... IMHO... purchasing heads based on flat plate volume (ie 18cc, 19cc etc.) is not a good way to add performance. Also... IMHO having a poor combustion process in your engine WILL lower engine reliability and CAN (normally will) cause severe engine failure to the bottom end (eventually) , as well as, the top end. What some do not realize is that their bottom end bearing is constantly getting hammered from improper combustion. Most think that when they lose a crank it is related to something other than the top end and combustion.. when IN FACT.. it is usually related totally to the head... So, think about that next time you lose a crank and can not figure out why! Anyway. Screaming Banshee.. I appreciate your civil responses and only wished more would follow your lead. Kelsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamin_Banshee Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Kelsey, Let me start w/ I am not here to flame, or run you or anyone else off, thats not what INFORMATION FORUMS are about...I have no intentions of trying to talk you down or say your heads/domes are better than anyone elses or vica verca, because in all reality it depends on what the consumer likes (IMO) I do want to address a few things I noticed.... I have to respectfully disagree. The method is not proven because most do not know what changed when they added a new domes size. In fact..many on here state that they felt no power difference but it aided in cooling and looked good. This I have to disagree with, alot of the ppl on this forum (along w/ others) HAVE noticed power increases after installing any aftermarket head along w/ domes. Of course this is along w/ the cooling and looks that comes along w/ it. Consider this... I just did a Banshee head for a customer and his engine builder ordered the head. I asked for application , fuel req, and deck ht. On the deck ht he told me standard deck ht. So, head went out.. customer put it on and the piston was smacking the head on the first run. So, he called me and asked me what was going on. I called the engine builder and asked him what he did to the cylinders. He told me what he did and all seemed fine. Then I asked the builder "did you deck any off the cylinders?" Response..... "Oh yah, I took .020" off the base of each jug" BINGO!! we have a winner!! On a set of cylinders that have had extensive work done to them, this is understandable- each and every thing that has been done to them has to be taken into consideration. But alot of times, ppl want to help cooling/looks/performance of STOCK cylinders. I think this is where alot of the WHAT SIZE DOME questions are helpfull... I imagine (correct me if I am wrong) most of the "standard" domes availible w/ aftermarket heads were designed to use on stock cylinders... This is not sayin that a set of "standard" domes are better or worse than "custom" domes, but for stock cylinders the standard would do just fine. Can we agree on that? AHHH... didn't we already try that a few months back? I do not remember if your were part of that or not.. In any case... it seems that people on this forum only hear and believe what they want to believe and will not open up to new information. Which only hurts themselves and their engine's performance. So, while I would like to help.. you can not help those who do not really want to be helped.. make sense? I was not in this discussion a few months back, I actually avoided it like the plage (sp?) At the time I was selling aftermarket heads, and chose to stay out of the arguements... I am no longer sellin them due to lack of time, my other buisness takes most of my attention. You are quite welcome for the civial responses, and thank you for doin the same. Like I have stated several times, I and not here to bash or flame, just learn more and help others learn. Please excuse me if it seems that I am targeting you (or anyone else) with my questions or comments, I feel questions/comments help bring out more information. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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