Questions on overheating

[bryan b]

Hey guys, me and some friends took the shee's down to the dunes in Waynoka this past weekend. Of course it was HOT. Up there in the low 100's. Anyhow. All 3 of us had heating issues.  None of us have temp gauges(thats gonna change). We could only ride for bout 20 min before they were hot and had to find a shade tree to sit under for a while. When i say hot i mean you could feel the heat and they were all 3 starting to run sluggish. We pulled plugs on all 3 and we all were jetted pretty well spot on. Elevation from where we normally ride is 803 and elevation at Waynoka is 1500+ or - a few.  Im trying to figure out if its some what normal for them to overheat in that kind of weather or if some how all 3 of us have issues. 2 of them(the 2004 & 2000) you could hear the antifreeze boiling in before we changed to engine ice. Even after the engine ice they still got hot. Never boiled but still HOT.  The mods to the bikes are all listed below. When we ride we are normally running fairly fast, 3rd, 4th and 5th gear normally. We do slow down and run the trails sometimes along with playing on some dunes.  Any input on this would be great. Thanks

 

We did drain the 50/50 antifreeze coolant out of them and checked all 3 impellers being they were still the plastic ones. all 3 were still in good shape. We filled them back up with engine ice. that seemed to help some but did not cure the problem.

 

All 3 run 32:1 93 octane with bel ray H1R Syn oil 

 

2004 Shee

65.5mm bore, stock head, stock radiator, stock impeller, stock carbs (260 mains), pod filters, stock gearing, FMF Fattys, lightened flywheel, stock timing.

 

2000 Shee

68mm bore, stock head, stock radiator, stock impeller, stock carbs (350 mains) this ones a little rich yet, pod filters, 13 tooth front sprocket, FMF fattys, +4 timing, 4mil storker.

 

1997 Shee (mine)

66mm bore, Trinity stage 4 cool head, 20 cc domes, aluminum oversize radiator,stock carbs ( 260 main), stock gearing, stock air box with K&N and no lid, +5 timing, FMF fattys.

 

All bikes except the 4 mil have had plug chops done and are right on. The 4 mil stroker was a brand new engine built the day before we left. so didn't have much time to do a chop before we left. Did one while we were there and its a little rich with the 350 main in it.

 

 

 

[bryan b]

Yes i have. It does sound lean being the 2004 has same jetting and less mods. My outer o-ring on my cool head started to leak a little saturday so we pulled the head and replaced the o-rings. I carry a extra o-ring kit for it. The pistons looked good, plugs good, cyl walls good. My engine has bout year and a half on it roughly. Been jetted that way for the whole time. We went to the badlands in Attica IN bout a month ago and road the $hit out of them constantly and never had a problem. 

[bryan b]

Could the air temp being hotter than heck possibly lean out the jetting at all? Just a thought. Some one smack me if im being dumb.

[n2otoofast4u]

Your trying to cool 180 degree water with 110 degree air. The temperature differential just isn't large enough to effectively cool things well. There isn't enough water volume nor is there enough exposed surface area on a bangshee radiator to cool the bike effectively in those temps. JMO

[bryan b]

Appreciate the info guys. I couldn't see all 3 of us having some thing wrong. I will say that engine ice does work. It kept them cooler than the 50/50 antifreeze. Next step is billet hi flow impeller. (has to help a little bit)

 

Also, what is the best gauge set up for temp? I have searched around and seen radiator caps with gauges, some people used automotive type gauges with a home made splice in a hose. Whats the most cost effective and per say best way to do that.

[joey83]

Water boils at 212 when at atmospheric pressure. When its under pressure the boiling temp rises. So youre way over 212 when you hear it boiling. My oversized aluminum radiator cured my overheating problems. But I havent worked it hard on the sand at 105.

[Jereme6655]

with a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water.....every psi of pressure raises the boiling point of the coolant by 3*.  So that being said....if your radiator cap IS still holding the 15psi rating.......your coolant wont point until 247*f. 

 

Your jetting is still in question......as a 260 main for pods, and fmf's is pretty lean.  Remember.....the higher the elevation, there is less air volume.....so you need less fuel.  When you go DOWN in elevation, you gain air volume......so you need to account for that and go up main sizes.  HOWEVER....there is an opposite side many don't mention/realize........being too rich on jets can ALSO cause your bike to run hot.

 

Here in Michigan for 80-85* temps with pods and fmf fatties, I was running 270-280 main jets.  And we are ride at 1200'

 

When you checked the plugs......were they checked after doing a plug chop AT the location you were riding at?  or were you just checking the plugs that you had been running all day?  If you had been running them all day already.....you cannot take a reading on jetting by those......unless your WAY WAY off.... you wont see a huge difference.

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

^^^^^ What he said about jetting.

Remember dune riding really loads the motor harder than dirt action. Your jetting is more than likely the issue, But.......

 

Any chance you guys got a bad batch of gas? I know one guy we ride with bought 5 gallons of premium for a ride. He used that same batch 2 weeks later and it had gone so bad that he needed push starts to get going.

Not many people are buying the premium fuels these days, so I think it's sitting in the ground a lot longer than it use to.

 

Your bikes are all mostly stock and if jetted correctly should cool just fine even in those high outdoor temps.

 

With all 3 bikes acting up........I'm thinking it's fuel related. Either jetting or fuel quality issues.

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

With all three bikes acting up wouldn't you think it's the 110* temp? That's fucking hot to be messing around on a banshee. Shit our 4x4s with EFI would have the fans running non stop. I agree it could be jetting, but I still think the bikes should be parked when it's that hot. Or at least mine are

 

Outdoor temps don't cause the motor to be hot......HP does that. The O.D. temps only lower the efficiency of the radiator. These bikes are very low on the power levels (Even the 4 mill) so they shouldn't be getting all that hot on their own. (Even with a high O.D. temp.)

 

Your 4 mill DM will get hot, but that's a lot of power going into a cylinder. Your motor got 2 times bigger than stock, but the water pump, hoses, radiator and frontal area of the bike stayed almost the same. So your machine will be more heat sensitive than a mostly stock motor.

 

With a Banshee's nose in the wind and the bike moving (Like was described) the radiator is getting plenty of airflow to cool bikes with those mods if jetted correctly and using good fuel.

 

 

 

So that being said....if your radiator cap IS still holding the 15psi rating.......your coolant wont boil until 247*f. 

 

Your jetting is still in question......as a 260 main for pods, and fmf's is pretty lean.  

 

 HOWEVER....there is an opposite side many don't mention/realize........being too rich on jets can ALSO cause your bike to run hot.

 

Here in Michigan for 80-85* temps with pods and fmf fatties, I was running 270-280 main jets.  And we are rite at 1200'

 

When you checked the plugs......  If you had been running them all day already.....you cannot take a reading on jetting by those......unless your WAY WAY off.... you wont see a huge difference.

 

This ^^^

 

All good info........... Sounds like you guys went from 803 up to 1500+ and showed up and ran your usual jetting. If the fuel batch was good.....your jetting was the issue because bikes with those power levels shouldn't overtax a stock Banshee cooling system if the bike is moving.

[RagunCajun]

I never heard of too rich can make it run hot. Can someone explain why?

Edited September 4, 2013 by RagunCajun

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

This will be classic....and I don't even have to type a paragraph. LOL

 

Knowledge drop in 3-2-1......http://www.dfn.com/agservices/jetfaq.html

[hoppedupandcutdown]

I ran both my Banshee's same place, same weekend, no problems. My purple bike has 280mains, K&N no lid, 21cc cool head, billet impeller, and just installed PT mids. I run 91 octane straight gas (no ethanol) from a trusted station, and my white one with the mods below.

 

AND, my fuel was left over from Memorial Day, the 110 was bought from LSPS and the 91 from a local station on the way to our lake, so there is a high turn around on the premium fuel.

[RagunCajun]

This will be classic....and I don't even have to type a paragraph. LOL

 

Knowledge drop in 3-2-1......http://www.dfn.com/agservices/jetfaq.htm

if the answer is there. ill post it here so people dont have to search forever on that page to get the answer like i will have to

[possum]

Ive never ran hot from running rich. and i mean pig fat.

[Deadbeat]

This will be classic....and I don't even have to type a paragraph. LOL

 

Knowledge drop in 3-2-1......http://www.dfn.com/agservices/jetfaq.html

good info but there is nothing in there as to why a bike would run hot from running rich.....so fail cunt FAIL