WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 It always comes down to you turning it into a big game of King of the Mountain with you standing on your trophies and proclaiming yourself the greatest doesn't it? Tyler is the greatest! Bow down and be thankful that he told us what his combo is. We should all be thankful that he shared his greatness with us. If you have not beaten Tyler at his chosen sport, then you clearly cannot comment on topics he involves himself in. If you own a Cub motor....ANY SIZE Cub motor....Clearly your a dumb shit if your not running out right now and buying BB pipes of some kind to strap to your machine. (Buy the way....he HATES Mat Shearer and his quality. So run that brand, but be sure not to be happy about it!) DO NOT trouble yourself with the effort of researching how or why a pipe would be a good fit for your motor! Don't even try to put words to the topic. It's a wasted motion. Tyler has done all the research needed on the topic and has made his opinion known. I thought I was just another member of the site trying to share information. I thought at worst someone might engage in a debate in which information would be exchanged. (Like dyno sheets, timeslips, butt dyno impressions) J-Madd was headed that route..... Nope.....Straight to insults and discrediting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
possum Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Well I am the kind of guy that wants to know "why". I was told to run SB and why but i am the curious type to wanna run BB. Just because I like to know what will happen. Although I am happy at the way the bike performs with the SB. And I am convinced that the SB pipes are optimal for my engine setup. But theres always that doubt that "what if". So that "what if" is what im interested in. Carry on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 I've got real world race experience. To people that want to win, that's more important than your dyno numbers and technical babble. Your whole argument is based on what Shearer tells you and dyno runs. Congrats! I prefer to set records and win shit. Apparently, all with the wrong set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazykane Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 I will try to post a dyno run tomorrow of Sb vs. BB shearer tomorrow. I don't have it on my phone. I think it was 6HP lower with Sb. Motor had lots of timing +12 but made much more power with BB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Loco is on track. Another consideration: some motors, ok a lot of motors under 500 CC's hit better numbers on the dyno with the small bore pipes but once it's in the dunes and being hot lapped it gets so heat soaked that the bike is actually down quite substantially in power from bottom to top. So that particular motor might be better with small bore pipes for single drag races but be better off with a big bore if it is in the dunes, fields, open trails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 My turn...with respects to Loco and John. I actually had a nice...what, hour or so conversation on the phone with John a month or so ago. I found some of it enlightening, and I found some of it disappointing. (The disappointing part was information he thought to be true, via word of mouth, about my old setup that was not even close to the truth.) I see John and Loco's point. The average guy wants to go fast and win. And Loco's done that. At the end of the day in racing, you race who shows up. Whether that's on the side of a hill, on 300ft of sand or 1/8 mile. Doesn't matter if 3 people show up or 1,000 show up. You race to beat them. I've been guilty of saying..."Yeah, but bring that bike/rider to a bigger stage and see how it stacks up". Ok...fine. Bottom line is you run what you brung, and race who shows up. To John's point. Shearer's pretty smart guy. He can obviously build a great motor and a great performing pipe. Despite my personal QC issues with him, I've always said he builds a fine performing pipe. I also know those "people" that think they act as his mouth piece tend to be full of shit. (Not directed at you John, you know what I"m talking about...) I'll be the first to tell you I'm lazy when it comes to tuning. I'll tune my bike to 90% of it's capability, and put pass after pass down. I'll leave that 10% to those that have jockeys and never ride and are actually the pit crew for a bike. Not that there's anything wrong with that...I just like to ride. And at 250, I'm not setting records unless it's beers consumed or a race to the chow line. LOL. If you took a setup to a dyno or track, and a pipe change made one or two tenths difference or 5, 6, 7 HP more...not many people are going to ask why John. You know as well as I do, we live in a quick, I want it fast and I want it now world. Some people don't have a dyno at their disposal, some drive hours just to make a few passes. So that being said, I certainly see their point. I'm in the middle, I like to know why, but I prefer my time slip results to anything else. I agree with John, if you want to know which to buy, ask your builder. And if you ask Why, they may say it's what I have the best results with. The builder might say because of I run compression ratio X, timing Y, porting Z and it works best. I talked to Shearer years ago and heard the same thing. Big Bore for 535 or bigger. He also said unless he knew your exact motor or built in, stamped pipes were a better option than hand coned, which...as soon as some people see hand coned pipes for sale...first thing they do is ooh and aahhh.. Most people don't want to buy two sets of pipes to try and see which works best. So they work on other things like gearing, tires, pressure, carbs, clutch, etc. I get it. Buying another set of pipes is a big chunk to swallow. Compared to jets, air and gearing, which are very inexpensive or free. I see both sides, neither is 100% right or wrong. (Admit it, you guys knew I was writing a bible sooner or later too...lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 ^^^ Windycitydave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 ^^^gumbyreacharoundrecipient^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tundish2800 Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 My 10 mil likes big bores. I got a set of shearer bb and rdz bb for it. Mine likes the rdz pipes more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Madd Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 http://forums.atvdragracers.com/topic/8042-bb-vs-sb-shearers-on-10-mil-cub/page__p__70169__hl__shearer__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 http://forums.atvdragracers.com/topic/8042-bb-vs-sb-shearers-on-10-mil-cub/page__p__70169__hl__shearer__That fucking post is clear as mud.. What I gather is that on different motors, in different applications, with 100 different variables, BB or SB could be the winner. Which is basically what I've been saying all along. There are far too many people winning with both pipes to determine a clear winner for all set ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 http://forums.atvdragracers.com/topic/8042-bb-vs-sb-shearers-on-10-mil-cub/page__p__70169__hl__shearer__ Excellent reference. Mat clearly covers the differences in the various pipes. The part I'm most baffled by is the following quote. (Not picking on you Dave, just using your words as an example) dajogejr The Man the legend Group:Lifetime Site Supporter! Posts:3439 Joined:15-May 08 Gender:Male Location:Metro-Detroit Interests:Racing with keyboards or on sand! Posted 15 September 2010 - 02:59 AM Somehow, somewhere...it was stated that anything bigger than a 4 mil cub should have BB pipes.When I talked to you Matt a couple years ago, you stated the BB were initially designed for a 535 Cheetah and anything smaller should be on the SB pipe. I would agree that if you ran the same time with each pipe, down to 60 and MPH the motor is not tuned to optimize the pipe chosen. That also being said, not everyone has the resources to tune max power using a dyno and different setups/combos. Most are like me, we change a part here or there and try different things at the track like fuel, tire pressure, tires, gearing, etc. If Everyone had the time to hit the dyno before they raced each time, we might push this sport faster. Then again, I've seen bikes hot off the dyno melt in real world riding due to temps/load being different than that of the dyno. So I guess my statements are about as clear as mud too...lol. Herr Jugs Racing Team Richards Auto Parts 0 The part I'm baffled by is....when people go to the trouble of doing the dyno testing and even post the explanations as to WHY a pipe is best suited for an application......why do the people who never got either combo dialed in the best possible, always go toe to toe with those who took the time to do the research? I'm not saying they didn't get the bike running good. I'm not even saying they couldn't win a race tuned that way. All I'm trying to point out is......changing a combo around can really wake up a motor. 165PSI and 6-8 degrees of timing on a SB pipe can make a noticeable amount of extra power over motor with BB pipes, 200+ PSI and 12-14 degrees of timing. All that is needed to get the motor in the sweet spot is a simple dome change. J-Madd (in that link) tested SB and BB pipes and got virtually identical timeslips. The SB pipes should have out performed the BB pipes to the tune of 5 HP but they ended up almost the same. They are vastly different pipes in the way they work. if your getting results that are that similar....then neither is working well. I'd just like us to be able to share info and discuss stuff (As I quoted Dave as saying) So "we might push this sport faster" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 John, are you referring mainly to peak HP? In some types of riding/racing, peak HP means little or nothing. I know that in hillclimbing, I am a lot less concerned with peak HP than I am a good strong curve off the bottom. Cameron dynoed the 18DM and it made anywhere from 136-141HP with my custom in-frame set up. The out-frames made about 6 more peak HP. The in-frames came on better and the curve was stronger down low. To me, that's more important than the peak. Is it possible, that in some instances, the BB may be better than the SB and vice versa? I'm just trying to think outside the box here and outside the realm of peak HP, which we all know is what most people are interested in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2otoofast4u Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) deleted my comment. Edited April 11, 2013 by n2otoofast4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 deleted my comment. Deleted mine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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