blowit Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I had a couple messages regarding a recent post I made on chassis grounding so I will attempt to elaborate a bit to help. Many here have found themselves with electrical problems. Many people believe if you don't have voltage, you have a bad component. That is not always the case because every AC/DC voltage source requires a common or negative reference to complete the circuit. Case and point, you can remove the negative cable from the battery in your car and then take the positive lead to anything in the vehicle without a single spark. It takes the continuity of that circuit to make usable current and voltage. In an ATV, the electrical source is within the engine as a magneto or magnetic flux induced voltage supply. ALL voltage from that source will be AC and it can either be conditioned and rectified as DC power or anything in between. However, Any power supply requires a common or negative reference in which that is the engine case. Also being referred to as the ground which are one in the same for this discussion but not always the case. It is totally possible to have a separate common and ground reference but for safety, they are usually at the same potential. Now, some here fight with "ground" issues in which electrical devices do not operate correctly. If you will notice in many ATVs, ground references are made direct to the chassis in many cases. In my opinion, steel sucks as a conductor and causes problems but it saves OEM's money... Many Hondas had it right 40yrs ago by running dedicated grounds right back where they need to go....the ENGINE! The engine, being all Aluminum, is a great conductor. However, in the Banshee it may not be necessary to completely rewire the bike just to fix these issues but it does stand to reason that if you paint your frame, PC your frame, ride in salt, etc, you need good contact from chassis to each electrical component, BUT also from the engine to the chassis! If you PC your frame, you will likely have a thick coating between the engine and chassis, which will drive you nuts trying to solve the electrical problems!! There are a few ways to solve this, one is obvious, grind the contact points between the frame and engine, next is to supply a new grounding cable between the engine and chassis. These can be found on many bikes from OEMs today as well as cars and are a smart move. The last is to carry a ground conductor right from the engine to each electrical device requiring ground reference. IMO, Yamaha dropped the ball big time by relying on the engine/chassis connection for this electrical continuity and the cheapest and smartest thing to do is add a very simple, 12ga copper grounding conductor from any point on the engine cases, to any bare point on the chassis. I hope this helps with some of the electrical problems out there!! Brandon Mull Engineering 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Awesome write up Brandon!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeCanBanshee Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Very informative. I had a recent topic I posted asking about grounding. And just so I have.it right the first time please yell me if I.am correct... I don't run headlights at the moment so I have removed my voltage regulator so no need for a ground there. I also have nothing on my bars electrical wise other than a tether switch which.is grounded to the bar clamp. I also have my coil mounted to bare frame for ground and also am running a ground wire from my cylinder nut to the coil mount. Is this enough grounding. I believe it is but just want someone with more electrical experience to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yes, I should clarify that though the lighting coils and ignition coils are totally separated, they both share the exact same common/ground reference at the engine so whether you run lights or not, a solid ground connection between chassis and engine is required. Running a ground cable from a head stud, to the ignition coil is just fine and qualifies as a ground strap granted the conductor size is reasonable. It is simply important that when creating a ground contact point at the engine, as much Aluminum is interfaced as possible. Aluminum is a hugely superior conductor than steel. No, it will NOT make you faster, but it WILL make sure you get back to camp without a tow strap hooked to your quad.....Commonly referred to a the "tow of shame". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 So 12ga wire is what should be used for any of these grounds? Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheerider1026 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Awesome write up.. I have my engine grounded to the chassis this way.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlaits Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I had this problem for over a year a couple years back. I ripped everything off the frame and cleaned it up. I rattle canned the frame with chrome/silver paint. When I put it all back together I had no spark. Went through the entire harness and every wire had continuity. Sanded down the grounding spots. Checked on/off switch which was good. Bypassed key switch just for good measure. Still no spark. Bought a new coil cause it tested bad. No spark. Bought new stator even tho it was within specs. No spark. Finally bought the most expensive part (cdi). No spark. I let it sit in my grandparents garage for a very long time. One day I decide to use part of an amp wire from my old system to ground the frame to the engine and BAM spark. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KozyHeat Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 That is a depressing story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 So 12ga wire is what should be used for any of these grounds? Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2 I made the determination of 12ga based on the lighting coil output from OEM and aftermarket systems. A 200W stator at 14V is about 16A so 12ga will cover that requirement nicely. Technically you could use 14ga without issue but the durability of larger wire is better. Any ANY automotive application, the higher the strand count, the better. Higher stranding is more flexible (easier to use), and has a higher cyclic count (bend more times without breaking). Vibration can damage wire. Nearly any automotive wire will be fine, just don't go grab Romex from your garage wiring stash and stick it on your Banshee.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
possum Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 3/0 high strand count will do just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Interesting... I am currently about to rewire my whole bike and I think I will definitely add a wire from the frame to motor. Gonna do the whole thing using GM weather pak connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1JUANstunna Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Nearly any automotive wire will be fine, just don't go grab Romex from your garage wiring stash and stick it on your Banshee.. Damn I already had a piece of 12-2 ready to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 JEEZUS! Freaking cops trying to wire bikes like a house! Haha yamahaman..... Just Fuggin with your donut eatin jelly n' Boston cream spittin ass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper06 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Fuck the weather pack connectors use Red wirenuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeCanBanshee Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Fuck wire nuts just twist together and halfass tape that shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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