locogato11283 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Some of you morons need to go back and take a look at where this post went south. It's when someone asked for a price and it started to look like an advertising thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Some of you morons need to go back and take a look at where this post went south. It's when someone asked for a price and it started to look like an advertising thread. That.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 I just want to clarify, I do not intend to offend or discourage anyone from learning. As a matter of fact, some of the senior members know that I like to preach about education. However, I guess what caught me as a little wrong is this work is obviously very new, untested, and unverified, yet the member is "open for business" to charge customers more than we do to "learn" on a customer head. I guess over my 15yrs of building engines, I got tired of seeing hackjobs some people called "port jobs" that they paid big bucks for because someone said "I did my own so now I am an expert". There are people right here on this site that have done nothing more than copy port work and call themselves an expert but I will let that dog lay. IMHO, I simply feel the member should probably consider doing "several" freebie jobs and get some feedback, and run some more numbers before hanging the "open to take your money" sign. Machining heads is NOT rocket science and I don't try to imply that only we can do it, but you really need to know it is right before charging someone for it. Just as a couple of notes, The fly cutter concerns me greatly, both in terms of rigidity, and safety. Swinging that big bar in an ER holder with that skinny shank means that if it binds, you could snap the shank and the bar will be connecting with someone/something HARD. Also, deflection looks to be a big concern with that setup and I am certain if you put a mag base and indicator on the end and push it around a bit, you will get .010" deflection up and down. Fly cutters are NOT intended to remove big amounts of material, they are designed to take .001-.003" from the surface to create a final, finished surface. I am a bit concerned that if you are not using a neutral rake insert, both pos and neg rakes will cause the cutter to either deflect or dig in and with the largely interupted cuts on a head, you NEED rigidity if you want a flat surface. I am certain that though the surface might look nice, if we stick that on a CMM, it will have waves in the surface from where the cutter dug or deflected. IMO, you need to dump that setup entirely and if you are fly cutting, research inserts for that work. An integral holder will be much better but be advised that the machine itself could be part of it. I know one shop I was at recently about shit themselves when I proved to them on their brand new Haas VMC that I could push the spindle around my hand over .003" in any direction. Proves the theories of spring passes though!!! Brandon Mull Engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicivicdude Posted November 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 I am a machinist and work with +/-.0001 tolerances all day every day. In my posts I stated facts and also helpful information. His replies to me were defensive and a joke. I appreciate your kind words at the beginning and any advice you may have to offer. I will also think critically about anything said and try to find the "gems" in it. Obviously, not everyone who's ever done anything has done it in a 5 million dollar machine shop (not specific numbers, just saying). Some people truly do have to start "somewhere" and you are looking at that "somewhere". Any other advice you'd like to offer besides "don't do it"? I just want to clarify, I do not intend to offend or discourage anyone from learning. As a matter of fact, some of the senior members know that I like to preach about education. However, I guess what caught me as a little wrong is this work is obviously very new, untested, and unverified, yet the member is "open for business" to charge customers more than we do to "learn" on a customer head. I guess over my 15yrs of building engines, I got tired of seeing hackjobs some people called "port jobs" that they paid big bucks for because someone said "I did my own so now I am an expert". There are people right here on this site that have done nothing more than copy port work and call themselves an expert but I will let that dog lay. IMHO, I simply feel the member should probably consider doing "several" freebie jobs and get some feedback, and run some more numbers before hanging the "open to take your money" sign. Machining heads is NOT rocket science and I don't try to imply that only we can do it, but you really need to know it is right before charging someone for it. Just as a couple of notes, The fly cutter concerns me greatly, both in terms of rigidity, and safety. Swinging that big bar in an ER holder with that skinny shank means that if it binds, you could snap the shank and the bar will be connecting with someone/something HARD. Also, deflection looks to be a big concern with that setup and I am certain if you put a mag base and indicator on the end and push it around a bit, you will get .010" deflection up and down. Fly cutters are NOT intended to remove big amounts of material, they are designed to take .001-.003" from the surface to create a final, finished surface. I am a bit concerned that if you are not using a neutral rake insert, both pos and neg rakes will cause the cutter to either deflect or dig in and with the largely interupted cuts on a head, you NEED rigidity if you want a flat surface. I am certain that though the surface might look nice, if we stick that on a CMM, it will have waves in the surface from where the cutter dug or deflected. IMO, you need to dump that setup entirely and if you are fly cutting, research inserts for that work. An integral holder will be much better but be advised that the machine itself could be part of it. I know one shop I was at recently about shit themselves when I proved to them on their brand new Haas VMC that I could push the spindle around my hand over .003" in any direction. Proves the theories of spring passes though!!! Brandon Mull Engineering Someone else suggested moving the bit down and into the fly cutter quite a bit more and "boxing it" in to reduce flex. I'm going to try a different carbide insert in it too, instead of the 60° pointed one. I've seen every different kind of fly cutter/head surfacing contraption you could name in my research. There's this really trick one made out of a SBC cast iron flywheel with many cutting bits spread around it. I decided for simplicity in the single point setup and may pay for rigidity for going the "easy" way. Do you have any suggestions as far as modifications go to that setup specifically? I was doing .010" fly cuts to reduce the mating surface down to where I wanted and even during the process the bit, flycutter, machine, head, and jig were not only not moving but only making a tiny "whoosh" sound as it was parting off metal (no chattering, no vibrations, nothing) so I think I'm on the right path there. I finished this up with a .002" finish cut (but again using the 60° pointed cutter) and then lapped the tiny ridges off. The lapping process was smooth all the way across the head (grooves were removed evenly during the process) so there's not that much variation across the surface. While I did just "branch out" into doing banshee work, this wasn't exactly a blind experiment either. I have been doing yamaha blaster heads for a while and have that pretty well down pat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2otoofast4u Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 KOC in da house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman Chassis Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Just sayin lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Hey man, what the hell is that to the left of your boring operation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman Chassis Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Its a fixture for holding round parts.. in this case a piston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 On the left? It looked like a pneumatic chuck on the right but the left looked odd. Maybe a specialty fixture for multiple components? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman Chassis Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Yea the left is a pneumatic v-shaped clamping fixture, and the right is a pneumatic pull stud fixture for 3-d contouring the top of parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cattledog Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 I Do agree that the site sponsers have paid to sell thier product and services here so even mentioning a price is touchy grounds, my only real point was the negative posts on what he is trying to do nothing more, so far mull/blowit has offered some sound advice and concerns on his methods to reach the goal of a good product truthfully i myself who races my banshee in a stock class at the drags would benifit from a stock head with a custom cut combustion chamber. i personally know of a stock cylinder 4mill engine in a stock j-arm frame that has ran 3.87 in 300ft built out of a little 1 bay garage and ported by a nobody as some would call him. good stuff can come out of a no name shop also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1JUANstunna Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 CD, isn't that cheating? If so I'm telling. It's only cheating if you get caught! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulvafan537240 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Snitches get stitches. CD is a bad mofo. Black in karate and shit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cattledog Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 cheating? in racing? not me !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicivicdude Posted November 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) KOC in da house! While Ken (and/or his disiciples) are amongst you, I am NOT one of them. Surfrjag an ddq have met me personally and can attest to that. @ wheelman: AWESOME! That's the bee's knee's there. Edited November 13, 2012 by sicivicdude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.