SlowerThanYou Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Asphalt 330' & Sand 300' similarities/differences. The reasons I went to sand was to find out some answers to the topic. PHunt asked a clutch set-up difference between the 2 surfaces in the lock-up tuning thread. That kind of prompted me to start this thread. Our knowledge/background comes from the asphalt starting in 2005, with somewhere well over 800 runs over 7 years. Our sand experience started in 2009, hill shooting. Late 2010, we finally started 300' sand racing. After a year of racing & over 100 runs, I've made a few observations. I wanted to keep the sand set-up as close as possible to our asphalt set-up. Asphalt we have put down some decent numbers in the 330' so why wouldn't it work for 300'. Here's a few items we found that were the same. 1st gear launch, while most use 2nd in the sand. We found 1st gear works well for both surfaces. Launch RPM using a limiter, we set this between 9,000-10,200 rpm. We have a an RPM that works for the majority of track conditions. Shift points using a shift light, we shift @ 10,000 rpm & it's probably higher by the time we react to the light. It works for us & we really don't change it. Asphalt Gearing, we mainly use a 17/36 (2.12 ratio) with a 20" tire. Sand Gearing, we mainly use a 17/42 (2.47 ratio) with a 24" tire. NOTE: Both gearing set-ups net us around 83 mph in 4th gear for there respective distance. There's tire growth involved with both tires. Clutch, the base pressure is a little higher due to the load differences. Everything else stays the same, like tower springs & arm weights. As for the motor set-up. We use the same carb settings, timing curves, compression & ect. With changes made for air changes & track conditions. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 We finally got the quad back on asphalt last weekend. The differences showed real quickly, but they were more procedural than actual set-up. The 1st thing I had to adjust for was staging. For most of our asphalt staging we must courtesy stage & with sand it didn't matter. 2nd, was remembering to shift. Asphalt we use all 6 gears with only using 4 for sand. It took a little to get the old mind into the right mindset. For the future racing asphalt/sand we are going to look at simplifying or limiting the differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunt Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 ? For you, when racing dirt leaving in 2nd and the wheels are spining is the lockup locking as soon as it leaves and not relying on base pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 ? For you, when racing dirt leaving in 2nd and the wheels are spining is the lockup locking as soon as it leaves and not relying on base pressure? The more wheelspin you have the quicker the arms will lock-up the clutch. Base pressure is still critical. We have a certian way we tune the standard lock-up and it's slightly different from the multi-stage lock-up. Both quads pull a low 1.30 60's. One is a alky 535 cheetah in a custom chassis using a standard lock-up. The other is a race gas 443 cub in a stock chassis using the multi-stage lock-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassbanshee479 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 why did you decide a 1st gear launch is better than a 2nd? just curious.... did you have to change up tires when going to a 1st launch or just gearing? was wondering if ya went to a harder hooking tire if you could get away with less gear so you could use more if the trans gears.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) why did you decide a 1st gear launch is better than a 2nd? just curious.... did you have to change up tires when going to a 1st launch or just gearing? was wondering if ya went to a harder hooking tire if you could get away with less gear so you could use more if the trans gears.....? We didn't decide/say a 1st gear launch is better than 2nd. This is our data we have. We have over 100 time slips to compare with our competitors. No one has come close to our 60's. We are using what worked for us on asphalt. Plus with our 1-4 override, manual 5 & 6 trans we didn't have much choice for 300'. We have ran low 1.30 60's on both surfaces. We have been mid to low 3.8s in the in the 330' asphalt. We haven't matched them times on 300' sand, but getting close. As for changing tires we have only had time to really run/test 2 sets of paddles & a few runs on a 3rd set. The 1st set of tires netted our best runs 22x11x8 12 paddle Extremes, but we had 3 & 4 gear traction problems. We switched to a 24x12x8 14 paddle Ripper. We lost some 60' & are slowly finding the tune with them, but we solved our 3 & 4 gear traction problems. Picking up 3 mph thru the finish line. The Puerto Ricans borrowed our quad to race & tried the 3rd tire. I'm not sure what the exact tire size was, but can get it. It was like a 26x12x12 14 paddle staggerd Extreme with 1 or 2 layers of kevlar. They went back to the proven Ripper. The gearing is the key for 1st gear, both in the spockets & 1st gear ratio. As for a harder hooking tire, I think the Ripper answers that question. Not sure about what you mean about "if you could get away with less gear so you could use more if the trans gears.....?" Edited November 9, 2012 by SlowerThanYou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassbanshee479 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 What i ment was, if you could find a tire that would hook alot harder to where you could gear the bike for a 2nd gear launch and cross the line in 5th rather than 4th... but seeing now that you have a 1-4 m5,6 thats gonna be alil hard to do lol thanks for the reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) thanks for the reply Thanks for the discussion. Now I have a few questions for you if they apply! I thought I read where you have ran dune drags, sand drags & asphalt drags. I would like to hear your thoughts on the similarities/differences of this topic? Time slips are always nice to add to the discussion. I have posted a few on HQ & can repost to this thread if needed. Edited November 11, 2012 by SlowerThanYou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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