hp2000 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginger Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 i feel like my 4s pull a little better then the 3's i think the bottom end is stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Im a big supporter of stock reeds. On ported banshees I have seen stock reeds out perform aftermarket reeds time after time. On a non ported banshee you might see 1 hp. I would spend my reed money elsewhere. I have never tested the 4s but I assume there no different. Sounds like the latest gimick. I would like to test a set so I know for sure though. Welcome to the site. Now go do some testing and get a clue because your completely talking out your ass. I did the dyno R+D on the 4's and if you think stock reeds are the way to go.....your stuck in the 1990's. There are a world of options regarding reeds and almost ALL of them offer better throttle response, lower end torque and peak power over stock reeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollinRhino Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Stock reeds and cages. The stock setup works very good. On a built drag banshee im sure you can do better but for the average joe making less than 70 hp stock reeds work great. I have some new ones still in the box I would sell you and let you be the judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alba Racing Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 I have done testing. I only trust what my dyno tells me. It is not a butt dyno it is a dynojet. I could see them maby giving better throttle response but I cant measure that on my dyno and I cant say for sure. Like I said I have never tested the vf4s maby they work. I have removed vf3s on ported banshees and replace them with stockers because the stock ones made more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alba Racing Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 I found that the stocker the engine the better the aftermarket reeds work. However it is a minimal gain. Once a engine has pipes and porting stock reeds start working better. You think it would be the opposite. Either way were talking about 2 hp at the most. It is a minimal gain and not worth messing with in my opinion. And like I said before Im sure if your building a drag engine with tons of hp you can do better than stock reeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginger Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 windy did dyno them iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I found that the stocker the engine the better the aftermarket reeds work. However it is a minimal gain. Once a engine has pipes and porting stock reeds start working better. You think it would be the opposite. Either way were talking about 2 hp at the most. It is a minimal gain and not worth messing with in my opinion. And like I said before Im sure if your building a drag engine with tons of hp you can do better than stock reeds. #1…..I'm speaking from experience in tuning on a DynoJet 188 chassis dyno with all the latest updates. ^^^^ Nothing you said above makes sense to anyone who has spent any time with engines in the sport. (Anyone running stock reeds in their motor care to chime in here?…….Anyone with more mods than a boost bottle? LOL) I would say 90+% of the members here are running some form of aftermarket reed system. (Boyesen, V-force 2-3-4, different brands of cages and stuffers) and less than 5% have ever even seen a dyno. But they have FELT a difference in how the bikes ran. So whatever amount of gain they are getting is significant enough to merit the purchase. Did you even bother to go back and look at some of the graphs in this post? (7HP improvement at 7500!!!) Your going to tell us that you would run stock reeds and do better? Stock reeds on a 100+Hp bike and get better results than an aftermarket set? Same thing for a 60HP bike? Hogwash! How old are you and how long have you been at Alba? Who's doing this "porting" that loves stock reeds so much? FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Stock reeds and cages. The stock setup works very good. On a built drag banshee im sure you can do better but for the average joe making less than 70 hp stock reeds work great. Your voice is smooth The words are clear But your lips don’t move Yet I can hear Oh, no! You’re talking out your ass again Yakking ‘bout things That you don’t know Your thoughts come out From a different hole Oh, no! You’re talking out your ass again Well, you're new to the site And we're glad to see ya But it makes me frown when I hear the sound Of your verbal diarrhea Sense and logic Both succumb To the dissertations From your bum Oh, no! You’re talking out your ass again Yeah! Well, faced with facts You still don’t quit No room for doubt When you’re full of it Oh, no! You’re talking out your ass again Don’t pretend! ‘Cause in truth, my friend You can’t defend All the words that wend out Your own rear end Quit talking Out your wazoo submitted for members who are getting a chuckle out of these Alba reeds posts. Keep it up and it'll have to get moved to the Humor section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey83 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I thought the "which pipes are better" threads were bad... Off topic- How did you get chosen to R&D and test these reeds Windy? Are you a big time racer or just a hobbie weekend racer? Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) I thought the "which pipes are better" threads were bad... Off topic- How did you get chosen to R&D and test these reeds Windy? Are you a big time racer or just a hobbie weekend racer? Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2 Illinois Powersports has a contact at Moto Tassinari. MT reached out to Illinois Powersports and asked him to do the R&D testing. I'm best friends with the owner of Illinois Powersports. I designed and built the dyno room as well as remodeled his entire shop. So when it was time to do some testing….both my bikes were at the focal point of the testing. (As were many of the bikes in my ride group so we could test machines from 45HP all the way to 100) I'm just like most guys on the site, just a hobby weekend racer with an addiction to horsepower. (A Nobody as Tyler would say) Just a guy with unlimited access to a DynoJet 188 chassis dyno and a thirst for testing. I didn't make a penny from MT (Neither did IP. The testing was just a professional favor) But I got to keep the winning prototype design in my machine. After all the testing we did…..I'm confident in the results we got and have been willing to share that info "Free of charge" to anyone willing to listen. (In my opinion, that's the point of being a member of a site like this….to openly share info and help each other out.) If anyone chooses not to take my word on something….they are more than free to do some testing of their own. But so far….(Of the people that actually own the V-Force 4's) all the feedback has echoed the original review I offered up after the testing was complete. Improved power over the 3's, almost the same peak numbers on high end drag bikes as the 2's, way better bottom end power than either 2's or 3's, and if your jetted perfect with your 3's, just go up one size on your pilots and your about perfect with the new 4's. As for stock reeds working better than aftermarket reeds on bikes making under 70HP……… Especially vs the 4's! Edited November 15, 2013 by WINDYCITYJOHN400 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayzx10r Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) Hey John,First, let me say I have a lot of respect for your (1)putting up with the personal attacks directed at you and (2), passing along valuable gained experience... so thanks!!That being said, maybe you can qualify a perspective for me..I'm confused with the reed replacement options we have. I have decades of 2-stroke experience (without dyno sheets!!) and have typically ripped out the stocker reeds and replaced them with Boyesen 2 stage type Power Reeds and realized significant improvement. One factor I appreciate about the Boyesens is that their fiberglass reeds last for years!! Based on my limited experience with carbon fiber, I'm skeptical about the longevity of CF as a material choice for reeds... Is the change from Boyesen to Vforce 4 going to be nearly as significant or is the majority of the improvement already realized by the Boyesen offering?I'm building a fresh 421 Serval with stock porting (casting irregularities removed), running 33PWK's, CPI pipes, and Redline cut pump gas domes for duning use at Glamis.I'm not a dragger, I'm a duner. I don't care about every last bit of power, longevity is more important to me than a couple of HP. However, if they give significant improvement over stock cages with Power Reeds and will last... I'll buy them!!What's the verdict?? :-) Edited November 15, 2013 by jayzx750 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 The carbon fiber reeds are a shorter life reed and tend to fray or chip at the tips when they go. But I've got 4 years on a set of V-3's with no failures. We saw noticeable gains with the 4's in the entire powerband over all the reeds that we swapped out. (Admittedly 2's still can make more peak power on big 90+HP full drag motors) but the 4's were within 1-2 HP at peak while still offering better bottom end and throttle response. (But that's not relevant to the drag bikes.) If your into dune riding, I think you will see a noticeable improvement in power switching to the 4's from your power reeds. I would make the switch. Go one size up on your pilot and fine tune airscrews from there. With the reed supports of the 4's, you may see a longer life than carbon reeds of the past. But in my opinion the noticeable gains are worth any shorter reed life expense. In the long run you can't loose much. You either sell your existing reeds after trying the 4's lowering your cost to about $100 or you try the 4's and if you don't see enough difference to change from what you had, then let me know and I'll buy them off you for my wife's bike. How's that sound? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayzx10r Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) It sounds like I'm ordering a set of vforce 4's. 4 years is more than acceptable as a replacement cycle and mine will probably be longer since I'll be running at lower RPM (Serval!!) than you drag guys. I'd read post of people stating after 40 hours their reeds were toast. It was mentioned that the vf4's have an improved resin so it sounds like a win-win. That's what this site is for.... Thanks!! Edited November 15, 2013 by jayzx750 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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