fastforworddad Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Well here goes, 421 4 mil cub +4 timing 35 pwk pilot 48, 160 mains, CEL 4th down New Fluidyne radiator and cap Mull billet impeller Trail tech has shown temps as high as 256*F but no boiling over, no spittin from overflow, no gurgling radiator. No sweet smell from exhaust or coolant smell at all, no using coolant. Started thinking gauge was way off on the Trail Tech Vapor so I tested it all they way to 220*F with the radiator cap off using my temp probe on my multi meter. At 220* coolant was just flowing, but didn't start to run out of the neck like I have seen it do in a car when temps are on the rise. When it gets HOT I shut it off and it seems to cool off just as fast as it heats up. Well the trail tech was right in line with temps from probe in neck of radiator. So this leads me to believe that it is reading properly. I have read about everything I could find on the subject of overheating and banshees. Yes it is hot hear, about 115*F but there has to be others that ride in the desert that can offer a little insight. The next thing I think I will have to do is take the head off and check the o rings even though there are no symptoms other than it running hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRed350x Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Are you riding fast enough that you have decent air flow over the radiator? Have you done a plug chop and verified your jetting is correct? Checked for detonation? Done a leak-down test and checked for air leaks? Have you pressure washed your radiator and made sure there is no dirt or silt buildup in the fins? Do you have a radiator shrowd thats blocking any airflow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Are you riding fast enough that you have decent air flow over the radiator? Have you done a plug chop and verified your jetting is correct? Checked for detonation? Done a leak-down test and checked for air leaks? Have you pressure washed your radiator and made sure there is no dirt or silt buildup in the fins? Do you have a radiator shrowd thats blocking any airflow? Before you go through the hassles of checking your bike, I would test that gauge by taking the probe inside and boiling some water in a pot. It should be about 210*. Also a good reference to test your tap water temp too. At 256* with no cap on the radiator, I woulx expect to see some gassing visible in the radiator. Brandon Mull Engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforworddad Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Are you riding fast enough that you have decent air flow over the radiator? Have you done a plug chop and verified your jetting is correct? Checked for detonation? Done a leak-down test and checked for air leaks? Have you pressure washed your radiator and made sure there is no dirt or silt buildup in the fins? Do you have a radiator shrowd thats blocking any airflow? Yeah I would sat I was riding fast enough to flow air over radiator, seems that the faster I would go the hotter it would get. Yes, several plug chops and a little fat and waiting for smaller jets from FAST. Don't think it is detonating, plugs are always tight and have never backed out. Yes did a leak down test and it was good, Radiator is new and bike is washed and lubed after each ride in the sand. As far as a shroud behind the radiator, no. And by the way it is a new oversize radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforworddad Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Before you go through the hassles of checking your bike, I would test that gauge by taking the probe inside and boiling some water in a pot. It should be about 210*. Also a good reference to test your tap water temp too. At 256* with no cap on the radiator, I woulx expect to see some gassing visible in the radiator. Brandon Mull Engineering Well Brandon, I let it get to 220 with no cap and could see flow, and used the temp probe on my multimeter to check its reading. They were within 3*-4* with probe in filler neck and temp sending unit in upper radiator hose right were it exits the head. The unit is hard wired in the bike, I guess I could remove it but I already proved it is accurate, at least to around 220*F. It was humid today but dont recall seeing any steam either. How have you been Brandon? Dunes here are pretty intense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRed350x Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 What type of engine coolant are you using? Have you checked to make sure your head and cylinder coolant passages are clear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toytech Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 what kind of radiator did you buy? overheating at faster speeds tells me the radiator isn't getting rid of the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClayAiken Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 what kind of radiator did you buy? overheating at faster speeds tells me the radiator isn't getting rid of the heat. He said its a Fluidyne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforworddad Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 What type of engine coolant are you using? Have you checked to make sure your head and cylinder coolant passages are clear? I am using a 50/50 mix of toyota red and distilled water. That is about the best we can get here in Qatar, but I bought some BelRay MotoChill when I went to Paris and was able to bring it back in my luggage. Haven't used it yet because waiting on clutch and new lockup cover to show up. Was hoping to make some headway on this problem before using it also because I only have 3 quarts and it goes in straight -- no mixing. I have not removed the Noss coolhead because it was brand new when installed. Although I have blown compressed air into all of the hoses, I know that probably doesn't tell me if there no obstructions or not as well as removing the head would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforworddad Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 what kind of radiator did you buy? overheating at faster speeds tells me the radiator isn't getting rid of the heat. Yes, it is a fluidyne with a fluidyne cap. The odd thing is that it cools down almost as fast as it heats up once I shut it down. I re-routed the temp sender wires away from the coil, kinda of a longshot and won't know if that is going to make any difference at all. With the amount of air slamming in to my helmet visor, there should be plenty air going over the radiator. Another thing is I am running the Maier plastics, but I removed their radiator cover grill, but their plastics don't come with the slats in the radiator cover like the stock plastics do.. Wondering if they are needed to "channel" air through the radiator more effectively than nothing at all. As it stands now, I have a radiator cover with no grill or anything, just a bare fluidyne. Thanks guys, I appreciate your suggestions, God know I have been picking my brains. Wondering if the factory radiator cover (the one with the slats) will bolt up to the Maier plastics. Damn thing runs strong, just afraid to tear it up by running it to hot. Sucks to have to keep stopping when riding with a group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 For the sake of simplicity in finding your issues, I would switch to straight water for now. You can save your coolant if you like. One of the things I would be testing if you have any way at all of doing it is the temperature differential or DT across the radiator. Between the inlet and outlet of the rad, you should be seeing significant drop there. If there is no change, the radiator is not exchanging heat into the air. Sometimes an IR gun works well for this if the tanks on a rad or Aluminum. You can shoot very near the inlet and outlet to test the DT. I would also make DAMN sure you don't have something casted wrong or plumbed wrong in a way that would allow air to be trapped in the top end. That will certainly cause these types of issues. You obviously also need to verify that you are moving water. One thing I have seen in years past is a radiator that has a strong oxide layer inside for some reason when new and that layer does not exchange heat near as well as bare Al. I don't know of a good test on that other that we caught it when we applied venting air with a fan and never got a DT across the radiator. Another radiator fixed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforworddad Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 For the sake of simplicity in finding your issues, I would switch to straight water for now. You can save your coolant if you like. One of the things I would be testing if you have any way at all of doing it is the temperature differential or DT across the radiator. Between the inlet and outlet of the rad, you should be seeing significant drop there. If there is no change, the radiator is not exchanging heat into the air. Sometimes an IR gun works well for this if the tanks on a rad or Aluminum. You can shoot very near the inlet and outlet to test the DT. I would also make DAMN sure you don't have something casted wrong or plumbed wrong in a way that would allow air to be trapped in the top end. That will certainly cause these types of issues. You obviously also need to verify that you are moving water. One thing I have seen in years past is a radiator that has a strong oxide layer inside for some reason when new and that layer does not exchange heat near as well as bare Al. I don't know of a good test on that other that we caught it when we applied venting air with a fan and never got a DT across the radiator. Another radiator fixed that. I will be removing the head when I get back from Dubai on Saturday, and checking things in there out. It is such a simple system that I can't figure out what could be wrong. I am also going to buy a infrared thermometer. When I put a fan in front of it after it is hot with it idling I can see the temps dropping. I know it is still running on the fat side of jetting, could that make this thing run that hot? I have read that in banshees the plugs will usually foul before you will see overheating issues from overly rich conditions. I am maybe 1-2 sizes rich on mains and maybe 1 size rich on pilots (screws 3 1/2 turns out), still waiting for them to arrive from the States. When it got to 256*F, I figured I would have seen some pretty obvious signs of a cooling system in distress, (puking coolant, gurgling radiator, strong coolant smell), but really nothing but a couple of coolant drops on the sand. Let me ask a question--This cub motor has a Noss Machine Adrenaline Racing head on it, are all the Noss heads the same, meaning a cub cylinder will use the same head as a stock cylinder? It was my understanding that stock and Noss heads are interchangeable between cub and stock cylinders. The only time you run into difficulties is when it is a stroked crank. If there is a difference, will it be obvious once the head is pulled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforworddad Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Well went outside and removed the head as the clymers says to do it. Pistons have minimal carbon and 20cc domes were pretty clean. Small orings around studs are a little distorted but I saw no blocked passages. The bottom plate of the Noss head really didn't want to go back on so I put it on a glass table top and it does have a very slight amount of wobble. Probably gonna put my stock heads on just to see if I realize any difference in running temps. Although I do think the bottom half is warped but I will try slipping in on my stock motor too see if I have the same issues I have when I try slipping it on the cub. I did have 1 stud come out of cylinder with acorn nut. Will get longer studs since there could be more for the acorn nuts to thread on. While out of town I will be checking in so keep comments coming. Thanks Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRed350x Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Have you checked that the small tube from the top of the head to the top of the radiator is clear? Do you have a stock radiator you can put on and see if it does any better? In all the years I've done banshees I have never once needed an aftermarket radiator. If you are jetted correctly it shouldn't be an issue.... -Jared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03crawldaddy Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Big red has an idea there. If the small hose from the the little nipple on the head, I call it the steam port, is clogged, it could be getting vapor locked from steam build up in the head I would imagine and would cause irratic temperatures. There are always hot spots that can create the steam in the head, that's what that hose vents to the top of the radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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