Shearer or sniper pipes

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

What dyno (atv or car) would most simulate real world conditions?

 

ATV.

You want to properly put a load on your machine to lengthen the run and allow you to see your tune stretched out for a longer time. With an ATV dyno you can do that with gearing or a eddy current load cell.

The Car dyno does that...but to an extreme. But Chris is familiar with tuning on both kinds.

[mailman]

We run methanol, if that makes a difference; but when a motor is rich it ALWAYS moves the curve to rhe right on back to back runs. This is dyno max hp, not meant for the track. This is on Jason Menz dyno, his 397 Cub has run 3.57 in3 00 ft. Most motors twice that size struggle to get there. He makes his own pipes, btw. JIM -NOW you're talking about overrev?

 

Yes, methanol is a totally different animal. I was referring to gas. I think that explains the difference. Gas doesn't have the cooling ability like methanol does.

Those are outstanding times on the cub. Hats off to that man. I don't think the average rider understands how much time and money it takes to get to that point.

I wish more guys would tinker with the pipes.

[ban421shee]

So nobody knows why the Sniper pipes lost 13hp on one dyno and the Shearers made the same on both? Too lean maybe, I have gained 9hp before with just a jetting change on gas.

[dajogejr]

Windy....my point is...all this talk about performance this, better pipe that.

 

What track are you personally setting all the records with? Because I haven't seen any of them. Where are all your time slips as a result of all these dyno runs?

Do you have the fastest dyno in the midwest? Here's your prize...

My WHOLE point is, and I'll use small words, if you've got a dyno and believe in results...where are you seeing them other than on the screen?

Because it's not at any of the tracks in MI. I can name at least 10 guys on this site alone that I've seen at the track race after race, year after year.

And I personally know dozens more at the tracks and races. Does that make me king ding a ling, Mr. Popular, the man?

 

NO. It just means I go to races and know the people that show up and race. And race with fast bikes and bikes that run well.

And that means I know the guys that are fast in the dunes as well.

And just side note...the fast bikes are in the dunes on holiday weekends. I know you like to feel fast against a bunch of 400EXs and piped 450s...but the real bikes go on holidays.

 

So for being a guy with a dyno that believes in results...where are your results? I believe in paper....the paper at the track, not the one in a caged room with my bike bolted down.

I have a problem when someone says they believe in real world results, yet thinks the cage with tie downs is real world...

 

Let the racers talk...go watch some cartoons.

[PassionRE]

The one was an ATV dyno = less heat. (99HP) Compare these runs to others you have seen posted

The other was a CAR dyno = more heat (113HP)

 

So the Sniper liked heat build up. (More heat helped) But only at the very end of the dyno run. Before that the Shearers are making more power.

Plus those Car runs were on different days....so Go back to looking at the ATV runs. They were done back to back the same day on the same type of dyno your use to seeing numbers from.

 

 

Oh ,so now you know the answer for the dyno discrepency and the mystery loss of 13hp. Well, your correct. Im glad I waited until you hung yourself out to dry to comment on it. But wait, what happened to "thats all it made on the ATV dyno"? lean maybe?... UHHH load,? ...uuuuuh, proper load to build the heat in the engine for a particular pipe design,?..... uuuh, a load that more resembles an actual operating condition maybe? How about a simulated load that builds the heat required to reach a designed state of tune?

 

Your correct about the load, too bad you didn't just state that info from the start for people that dont know any better...you talk out of both sides of your mouth John, which is just another indicator of your bias at any cost. Whats sad is you have the ability to sort out the data, but would rather just spout out anything that supports your personal preference.

 

I still reccomend the Shearers and CPI's where certain conditions / variables exist...do you?

 

In reference to denial of comments being made on your part about Snipers making more power on any engine, this is what you actually said, QUOTE.........>>>> " But the reality is it was developed on a Passion 421. So I'm not sure I'm willing to except that the Sniper pipe slapped on ANY motor is going to show the performance gains we have been told about. "......

 

The term "Not sure I'm willing to accept"(sp correction of original quote) ,.....would tend to indicate, and proclaim ,a refusal to believe what youv'e been told....only problem is, you've never been told that, not by me anyway, and you know that as well. Piss on the HQ members heads John, but dont tell them its raining! ..........Give it up, Im not a wise target....Jim

[ban421shee]

So nobody knows why the Sniper pipes lost 13hp on one dyno and the Shearers made the same on both? Too lean maybe, I have gained 9hp before with just a jetting change on gas.

 

I found it I think,the dyno run files are run 1 to run 7, there could not have been any tuning, jet change or timing change after the first 3 pulls? Others have said Snipers need more fuel on gas than most other pipes, if anyone else has tuned in Snipers on gas, can you add to this if it's true?

 

 

[dave5.0]

I found it I think,the dyno run files are run 1 to run 7, there could not have been any tuning, jet change or timing change after the first 3 pulls? Others have said Snipers need more fuel on gas than most other pipes, if anyone else has tuned in Snipers on gas, can you add to this if it's true?

 

 

 

Jim just explained it in his last post where he was busting WINDYWINDBAGS balls.

[J-Madd]

There is a ton on information on my hands for this topic so it may take me a while to get all the graphs up and explain them. I worked with 2 different dynoes and 3 different sets of pipes. The bike was run on race gas.

 

The motor in question is a 4 mil DM that Jim built for me. He got the cylinder raw and the cases and did everything he wanted to them. He designed the domes for this motor too. Gary was given this information and designed a custom set of OOF silenced Snipers for this motor. He actually first made me a set of inframes but they wouldn't fit on my Lonestar frame so I had to go the OOF drag pipe route. The Snipers were OOF drag pipes with silencers made for the 554 CC 4 mil DM.

 

I dynoed these at D+M Racing in Glendale on Doug's ATV roller only dyno. The gearing on the bike was 15/41 or 16/41 if I remember correctly which produced speeds of 80 to 85 mph. The first 3 runs were done with the Snipers after I had it jetted correctly for the Snipers. The last 3 runs were some used Shearer OOF non-silenced drag pipes that were hanging on Doug's wall. The Shearers ended up making about 10 hp more than the Snipers with this motor and on this dyno. The Snipers made about 100 HP and the Shearers about 110 HP.

 

There is a ton more info. to this so please wait until I finish posting all the facts up. This may take a few days. You will end up with more questions than answers when I am done. Enjoy.

 

 

[mailman]

Please keep in mind that the Shearers were 2 different sets. The first was a set hanging on the wall at D+M and they had stingers (not silencers). The set I put on Hall's dyno was a set of silenced shearers in an OOF.

I went back to D+M to test the Shearer silenced oof pipes vs. the oof pipes with stingers. These were done back to back on 5/31/11 on the 554cc DM on gas.

The stronger curve is the stinger set.

 

[lms1977]

mailman what is the best power you got out of the 4mil dm so far with the snipers or shearers for that matter?

did you end up ever getting more out of it?

should'nt that set up be making over 120hp if done correct? is'nt a built 421 running 105-108hp

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

Windy....my point is...all this talk about performance this, better pipe that.

 

What track are you personally setting all the records with? Because I haven't seen any of them. Where are all your time slips as a result of all these dyno runs?

Do you have the fastest dyno in the midwest? Here's your prize...

My WHOLE point is, and I'll use small words, if you've got a dyno and believe in results...where are you seeing them other than on the screen?

Because it's not at any of the tracks in MI. I can name at least 10 guys on this site alone that I've seen at the track race after race, year after year.

And I personally know dozens more at the tracks and races. Does that make me king ding a ling, Mr. Popular, the man?

 

NO. It just means I go to races and know the people that show up and race. And race with fast bikes and bikes that run well.

And that means I know the guys that are fast in the dunes as well.

And just side note...the fast bikes are in the dunes on holiday weekends. I know you like to feel fast against a bunch of 400EXs and piped 450s...but the real bikes go on holidays.

 

So for being a guy with a dyno that believes in results...where are your results? I believe in paper....the paper at the track, not the one in a caged room with my bike bolted down.

I have a problem when someone says they believe in real world results, yet thinks the cage with tie downs is real world...

 

Let the racers talk...go watch some cartoons.

 

 

Your right. I'm not setting records. But neither is Dave5.0 But I bet he wants his Banshee to make as much power as it can for the money spent. I run the strip casually because I'm not willing to run a bike with no front brakes on the dunes. I'm also not interested in building a bike for drag only. I want a bike with Elka Dune Editions not shaws or struts. I want to run gas not alky cause I dune and don't want to have to fuel up every 20 minutes. If I don't strip my bike down to nothing and run alky....I wouldn't be able to set any records or even be competitive. So I'm not measuring my bikes performance based on your way of riding. I was at the dunes for the HQ ride...were you there? I was running against everyone. I lined up with whoever was there. I enjoyed racing JOHNDEER10 (I think that's his screen name) and my gas 10 mill was giving his alky full drag bike a run for his money. (Quite a few alky bikes for that matter.) But that 18mill DM shark tank bike from Quality Powdercoat wasn't even going to need to worry about anyone. LOL. Can my bike run with Jeremy and Lindsay ? No....not many can. I've known them for years. I just sent Lindsay a video of her cranking a 3rd gear wheelie in their new V-8 sand rail from the HQ weekend. So I'm out there.......

 

The testing I do proves what parts are capable of. If you were at the HQ ride and had met me you would have had a chance to see the prototype part that's about to be released from a major Banshee parts supplier. Most of us are running one of their previous models right now. (Dealers will be told in August that it's coming.)

But you don't know me........so I'm nobody in your eyes.

 

Do I talk? Yeah I do. I did a big post about how bad Trinity is and you mock it to this very day.......but now it's common knowledge among even the newest noob/rookie members that Trinity domes are junk and I've been willing to also inform people about why and what to do about it.

 

So you said you believe in results on paper...the paper on the track. Not tied down in some caged room. Well then why the hell would anyone want to hear your dyno test results?

Why is dyno testing YOU DO on these pipes something we should all look forward to? You believe in race results. I was really looking forward to the HQ dune challenge as the real throw down test. But that didn't happen. So I've looked for info about these pipes and so far it's all from Passion motor owners or guys who went from T-5's or FMF's to Snipers and many are OOF pipes as well.

 

Mailman posted some quality info.

It was real world testing done on the same kind of dyno's that are used in this sport. Then he also included runs from a car dyno. ALL of the runs show a Passion 4 mill DM making very low numbers.

Jim is going to talk about air fuel numbers or intake resonance. Dajogejr is all about tuning by ear & plug at the track, thinks dyno testing is a waste and has more than likely never measured his A/F ratios in most of his bikes.

I'm suposed to sit here and "Let the racers talk"? Fine. Why don't you all start with talking about a 554 DM that makes .20HP per cc.

[Colby]

im already excited for the super secret part that is coming

[dajogejr]

Do you or I own the 554 that makes .20 per cc? No. Your point...again, is what? None.

I know Jer, Linds and Jeff. The whole crew...and they're great people. And yes...you can ask Jeff or Jer or Linds. My old 10 mil ran with them pound for pound when they ran 10 mils. If they still do, I don't know...I've been out of it for 2 years and it's been a while since I talked to and seen them. However, when I do it's always with a smile and handshake...

 

In fact Jeff has rode my old bike quite a few times and his words to me at the track was "I always love riding your bike Dave, it's always crisp and tuned good".

He'll back that up 100%.

 

Do you mean the Silver Lake HQ ride or the one that was in Little Sahara last year? If you mean the SL ride...no, wasn't there. If you mean the LS ride last year, yes....Chris was there, with my old bike and motor...and he did pretty darned well from what I've read and heard.

 

I don't ride dunes because slamming whoops at 90 is not my cup of tea. Going through traps at 80 MPH, flat ground, with only one person to worry about is more my style. Lights, timers, controlled environment. I've seen Scotty H. wheelie hard and hit a bump and get on one wheel and not lift. Sorry to say...my stones are not that big nor will they ever be. I've seen J, J &L smash through the dunes as well. IN fact...Jeff is well known for his "light weight, barely there Jeans." Our joke is we'll chip in and get him a pair that wasn't falling apart.

 

Speaking of the Neibargers...(J, J &L) ask them about me, my character and what kind of person I am.

 

I am not a Passion guy. Never have been, never will be. I'm an HJR and FAST guy. Direct competitors to him. And good competitors at that.

Mailman did post good info. Info Jim already posted you twisted your own way to make yourself sound better. Whoosh....that was your credibility going right out the door.

 

So you use a dyno to see what parts can do. How about you do what us other racers do. Put some parts together, as a package and make it work.

 

Otherwise, we'll look forward to your prototype boost bottle write up...drooling with anticipation.

[Colby]

Otherwise, we'll look forward to your prototype boost bottle write up...drooling with anticipation.

 

 

[ban421shee]

Come on Windy, you wouldn't say the Snipers may be a little bit competitive with Shearer?