Shearer or sniper pipes

[mailman]

Mailman, while I appreciate sharing the info, truly...I do. How can anyone have any faith in these numbers and runs when they're done over 2 months apart?

It is interesting to see the similar power curves...but anyone can tell you that many days apart is not a good comparison of the two.

 

I understand Dave and see your point which I share with you and that is why I mentioned the time lapse.

Unfortunately, this is the data that I have so you have to be careful how you interpret it.

[locogato11283]

I have no idea if he did or not but I'm sure there not the original version he sells now ..!! and what the hell does that matter if I could ask?? are you the guy that designed concrete I mean come on

 

This might hold some water if I made and sold concrete.

 

I don't.

 

I set and pour foundation walls.

 

I BUY concrete from the local concrete plant.

 

Nice try though.

 

EDIT: It was just a simple question. It has more relevance in this thread than a lot of the stuff in here.

[dajogejr]

I understand Dave and see your point which I share with you and that is why I mentioned the time lapse.

Unfortunately, this is the data that I have so you have to be careful how you interpret it.

 

Fair enough and I appreciate your honesty!

[PassionRE]

The next graph will show the Snipers on the car dyno vs. a set of OOF silenced Shearer big bore pipes with the head pipe cut down 1/2 inch to an inch. I forget the exact amount. The carbs used for all these dyno runs were 38 pwk's on gas. The Shearers are red and the Snipers are blue. You can see the Shearer pipes are stronger through the entire curve until 9500 rpm. From 9500 rpm on up, the Snipers are stronger.

It is important to note that this comparison was not done back to back on the same day. The Sniper run posted here is "the best run" from 3/16/11 and the Shearer best run was on 5/27/11.

 

[/quote

 

Thanks for the latest info Chris, even I didnt have this one. Would have loved to seen the curve on 44's. This particular Sniper was a modded standard Asassin inframe pipe converted to OOF, with consideration torward the biigger dispacement of the DM vs. the original 421 cub format it was designed for originally.

If Im not mistaken, it was the first DM design Gary had done. It literally went from the design board to the dyno without any R&D other than the continued software development Gary is always working on. Pretty decent results for a first try effort using the earlier versions of his software he was working with at the time...Jim

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

That's funny......because they didn't hold a candle to the used Shearers designed for an 18mill that they had hanging on the wall over at D+M.

 

I would have thought that if this new pipe builder had a revolutionary software program that was so cutting edge that he could make the claims of superiority over the entire industries designs......that R+D wouldn't be so necessary. I don't think that Chris had envisioned sending his pipes back time and time again to be modded till they could run with some off the shelf Shearers. Don't get me wrong....I firmly believe that R+D and feedback are needed in designing a great pipe. But I would imagine that since the guys over at CPI and Shearer have YEARS of experience building pipes for many different cylinder designs....that time and experience would lead you to believe them more capable of finding the sweet spot for just about any pipe design.

 

I'm sure that plenty of time was spend developing the 421 pipe on a 421. But the reality is it was developed on a Passion 421. So I'm not sure I'm willing to except that the Sniper pipe slapped on ANY motor is going to show the performance gains we have been told about.

(After all this was a Passion 4 mill DM and Sniper had all the specs of the motor....so why is a Shearer pipe that WASN'T designed for a 4 mil DM or even a Passion motor out shining it?)

We're talking about a motor with porting, compression and domes designed to work best with the Sniper pipes........Could you test Shearers on a motor that was any more biased towards making the Snipers shine?

Everyone keeps saying they want to see independent testing because they are afraid that people will test the Snipers on a motor that will favor a Shearer design..........

This is a test where the motor should clearly favor the Sniper pipes that were custom modded for this specific build........yet some borrowed, mismatched, used Shearers lead in every dyno pass on both style dynos.

 

NOTE: We keep hearing about how the Snipers hold less heat in the motor....but those Car dyno runs are like full pulls up the hill with a heavy load and the Shearers look to hold less heat than the Snipers.

 

I'm wondering if you slap some Snipers on any motor other than the 421 cub that they were designed on.....will you see the same loss? Will you need to mod each set to match the motors needs? How many years till your R+D catches up with the other pipe builders out there? Can you really promote Snipers for use on a SS 4 mill, a Serval , a 370 motor, or a 10 mill cub and still think you can hit the +10HP promise?

[hp2000]

This is getting good...

[ban421shee]

Man, I feel like I just got off of a roller-coaster

[SandmanPNW]

I think I'm gonna barf

[PassionRE]

That's funny......because they didn't hold a candle to the used Shearers designed for an 18mill that they had hanging on the wall over at D+M.

 

I would have thought that if this new pipe builder had a revolutionary software program that was so cutting edge that he could make the claims of superiority over the entire industries designs......that R+D wouldn't be so necessary. I don't think that Chris had envisioned sending his pipes back time and time again to be modded till they could run with some off the shelf Shearers. Don't get me wrong....I firmly believe that R+D and feedback are needed in designing a great pipe. But I would imagine that since the guys over at CPI and Shearer have YEARS of experience building pipes for many different cylinder designs....that time and experience would lead you to believe them more capable of finding the sweet spot for just about any pipe design.

 

I'm sure that plenty of time was spend developing the 421 pipe on a 421. But the reality is it was developed on a Passion 421. So I'm not sure I'm willing to except that the Sniper pipe slapped on ANY motor is going to show the performance gains we have been told about.

(After all this was a Passion 4 mill DM and Sniper had all the specs of the motor....so why is a Shearer pipe that WASN'T designed for a 4 mil DM or even a Passion motor out shining it?)

We're talking about a motor with porting, compression and domes designed to work best with the Sniper pipes........Could you test Shearers on a motor that was any more biased towards making the Snipers shine?

Everyone keeps saying they want to see independent testing because they are afraid that people will test the Snipers on a motor that will favor a Shearer design..........

This is a test where the motor should clearly favor the Sniper pipes that were custom modded for this specific build........yet some borrowed, mismatched, used Shearers lead in every dyno pass on both style dynos.

 

NOTE: We keep hearing about how the Snipers hold less heat in the motor....but those Car dyno runs are like full pulls up the hill with a heavy load and the Shearers look to hold less heat than the Snipers.

 

I'm wondering if you slap some Snipers on any motor other than the 421 cub that they were designed on.....will you see the same loss? Will you need to mod each set to match the motors needs? How many years till your R+D catches up with the other pipe builders out there? Can you really promote Snipers for use on a SS 4 mill, a Serval , a 370 motor, or a 10 mill cub and still think you can hit the +10HP promise?

John your hostility is obviously over-riding your objectivity or willingness to observe and absorb data. As for your repeated reference to the D+M dyno, is that a matter of convenience on your part for evidence, or is that the best you can come up with?

 

The first question I would have had is where did the power go and why? The Shearers make the same number on each dyno, but we lose 13 hp due to whatever reason on one dyno and you just take that as factual data. Without an A/F chart on either pipe, or knowing exact gearing etc. ,I wouldn't even care to guess. It is pretty obvious something was out of whack on the D+M runs concerning the Sniper. Its easy to tell that when you look at the other sheet. When the overall curve is so simular using both sets of pipes, it's safe to say it holds more reference value...even if it doesn't support your intent. Its also safe to say, that I personally could have tuned the Sniper to be on top through the entire run easily. So, if you throw that factor in , keeping objective usefull interpitation as a guideline would serve you much better.

 

 

 

I wont even go into the intake resonance mismatch of an undercarbed engine vs. pipe resonance and its effects on power output with you, that would require more typing than I care for. But an overall performance evaluation of this particular engine isn't even possible because of it.

 

What is possible to notice , is the Sniper making 3+ more HP than the Shearer and more tq. as well, along with that killer over-rev your probably partial to on the same dyno. No, not the same day, but it's more usefull data than a obvious over-sight at the D+M dyno runs since the curves dont even look like the same engine on the D+M dyno. Over-all the data is just another tool to look at.

 

Ill close with a request. Show me anywhere Ive said the Sniper will make more power on any engine...it doesnt exist. Go back and read everything Ive posted. Many forum members can contest that Ive stated to them personally that its not a match with what they are running. I would like to think that my willingness to give up a sale holds more value than shoving them down anyones throat. I would think that alone should at least merit an open mind on your part.....Jim

[dirtydownunder]

Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour.

[dirtydownunder]

The dot over the letter 'i' is called a tittle.

[Phelps]

you know.... i would probably post in here if i thought i could add some drama, but it seems like it's already full. that really pisses me off too.

[WINDYCITYJOHN400]

John your hostility is obviously over-riding your objectivity or willingness to observe and absorb data. As for your repeated reference to the D+M dyno, is that a matter of convenience on your part for evidence, or is that the best you can come up with?

 

The first question I would have had is where did the power go and why? The Shearers make the same number on each dyno, but we lose 13 hp due to whatever reason on one dyno and you just take that as factual data. Without an A/F chart on either pipe, or knowing exact gearing etc. ,I wouldn't even care to guess. It is pretty obvious something was out of whack on the D+M runs concerning the Sniper. Its easy to tell that when you look at the other sheet. When the overall curve is so simular using both sets of pipes, it's safe to say it holds more reference value...even if it doesn't support your intent. Its also safe to say, that I personally could have tuned the Sniper to be on top through the entire run easily. So, if you throw that factor in , keeping objective usefull interpitation as a guideline would serve you much better.

 

 

 

I wont even go into the intake resonance mismatch of an undercarbed engine vs. pipe resonance and its effects on power output with you, that would require more typing than I care for. But an overall performance evaluation of this particular engine isn't even possible because of it.

 

What is possible to notice , is the Sniper making 3+ more HP than the Shearer and more tq. as well, along with that killer over-rev your probably partial to on the same dyno. No, not the same day, but it's more usefull data than a obvious over-sight at the D+M dyno runs since the curves dont even look like the same engine on the D+M dyno. Over-all the data is just another tool to look at.

 

Ill close with a request. Show me anywhere Ive said the Sniper will make more power on any engine...it doesnt exist. Go back and read everything Ive posted. Many forum members can contest that Ive stated to them personally that its not a match with what they are running. I would like to think that my willingness to give up a sale holds more value than shoving them down anyones throat. I would think that alone should at least merit an open mind on your part.....Jim

[ban421shee]

I have a 535 cheetah and was wondering if anyone has used the sniper pipes from passion racing. I like my Shearers but have been wondering about the sniper pipes. Any input would be great.

 

So how about it 10milmike,what have you learned?

[dajogejr]

Note to Jim.

And you wondered where he got the name Windy... all air coming out of that mouth.

 

For a casual under rider and track novice, you sure spout off a bunch without proving much...but we don't need to go there.

In the years I've been to the MI dunes and tracks, I've never seen you at any of them once. Not once.

 

So again, you can run your mouth all over, just like in your baby Trinity rants...but you're only making yourself look like a fool.

You replied and pasted Jim's whole post, yet he asked you where he said they would make more power on every motor.

 

Are you going to try and do that...or just prove you can hit reply, show Jim's post...then not add anything.

 

BRILLIANT.

 

We are going to test the OOF on a 4 mil cub in MI vs. some Shearer pipes. Same day. I believe it's going to be gas...not 100% sure.

The man running the dyno has been around them for years and years. I have faith in his dyno ability (that's not a knock against D&M or anyone else in the thread...please don't take it that way anyone.)

 

IF the Shearers make more, I'll post it. If the Sniper make more...I'll post that too. To be fair, the Snipers I have came with several stinger tubes with varying ID. And obviously the Shearer are stamped out of the box. I don't have 100% details of the complete setup, but I will once we get done. Carbs, ported or not, etc.

 

Be a few weeks.

 

Thanks to Mailman for posting up what he did and being civil and honest.