350skabarat Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Ok ive been trying to understand how peps zero preload system works and im finding it very dificult because nobody actually knows!!!! Ive evan emailed pep themselves and all they can help me with is by giving me a link that opens a pdf that explains how to set up zero preload shocks. Which doesnt realy explain how the so called "Lower ride height with no lost travel is achieved" Its actualy stupid. From what ive gathered is that all that makes these shock zero preload shocks are the tripple rate springs where one spring is supper soft so you can set the ride height low and not have your spring washers rattle. This does NOT give you full travel on the shock!!!! if you set the ride height low, you only have half the shock shaft sticking out, giving it half the ability to ubsorb bumps. When they say "Low ride height while maintaining full suspension travel" you would think that your quad could be set low and have your shock basically fully extended giving you the advantage of using your shocks full travel to ubsorb bumps. When your in the air yes then the shocks fully extend, But any shock would fully extend!!! And someone told me as soon as you start the bike the shocks fully extend!!!!!?????WTF!!!??? I just dont get it! i realy wanted to buy these shocks but it seams like its just a sales scheme? Can anyone maybe please try explain how these work if you know? maybe Mr Matt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulvafan537240 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 And someone told me as soon as you start the bike the shocks fully extend!!!!!?????WTF!!!??? hahahaha whhaaaatt?!?! thats hilarious!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350skabarat Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Ok i think i get it now. The way i understand it is that these shocks are fitted with spring stacks whereby one of the springs in the shock is soft, causing the bike to sag more than a normal bike. Now when the bike sags to its height, the springs basically become as stiff as normal shock springs would become, its kinda obvious, they reach equilibrium. So when the bike rides and jumps and turns the whole benifit of these shocks is that they give you more downward travel (wheels moving downward) than a normal shock. The only thing that concerns me is that by using these shock you sacrifice upward travel from the hectic saging, unless these shocks have supper long shaft travel compared to a normal shock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coupelx Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I run some older TCS ZPS shocks. The purpose of the sag is to keep the tires on the ground. Like being able to turn with the hammer down in the trails which is a big plus over the stock or yfz junk. It is still used on stadium trucks i think. I talked with Matt for awhile about this. It also allows for more accurate valving because you dont have a bunch of different springs pushing out. Technology has obviously advanced since then with shocks that have this along with the multirate springs. Ride height is controlled moving the top spring perch down and sag is controlled by the spacers in the shocks similar to how you change the crossover rate on multirate setups. mine is just a duner but when i need them they always come through. land off a jump a little awkward and it sticks to the ground with no drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacko2000 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Wow that's a lot of spring That's a pretty kool setup I've never seen them before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coupelx Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Wow that's a lot of spring That's a pretty kool setup I've never seen them before I think alot of them get passed off as a dual rate setup like happened to me and i didnt know the difference until i sent them to matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camatv Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 lower center of gravity means more control around curves... when you jump and i mean pretty big ones they will extend to full travel in the air and when you land you have that much more to soak up the load and if you screw up it saves your ass quite considerably. i personally hatted the ZPS style on a rider bike with the stock or +2 banshee suspension. to ME ( YES THIS IS MY OPINION SO FUCK OFF) there is just not enough travel in them to really work well in whoops and "trail " riding. to get them soft enough in the trals usually meant the good posibility of bottoming out.. now saying that i havent rode on a brand new absolutely state of the art 2012 released bla bla bla shock that cost 3000 each.. i have rode on both zps and standard dual rate or triple rate gasser works. and personally prefer'd the std gasser style of shock. BUT for example my outlaw which has whats called limited mass? ( i'm guessing zero preload) is a million times better in the trails with this style of shock of course my ride height is nearly the same as an oem banshee but on a jump the front and rear extend out about 6" more. also when it wheelies the fronts drop down. again this is all my opinion coming from someone who has had both styles of shocks on multiple setups and raced both styles of shocks at one time many many moons ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350skabarat Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 lower center of gravity means more control around curves... when you jump and i mean pretty big ones they will extend to full travel in the air and when you land you have that much more to soak up the load and if you screw up it saves your ass quite considerably. i personally hatted the ZPS style on a rider bike with the stock or +2 banshee suspension. to ME ( YES THIS IS MY OPINION SO FUCK OFF) there is just not enough travel in them to really work well in whoops and "trail " riding. to get them soft enough in the trals usually meant the good posibility of bottoming out.. now saying that i havent rode on a brand new absolutely state of the art 2012 released bla bla bla shock that cost 3000 each.. i have rode on both zps and standard dual rate or triple rate gasser works. and personally prefer'd the std gasser style of shock. BUT for example my outlaw which has whats called limited mass? ( i'm guessing zero preload) is a million times better in the trails with this style of shock of course my ride height is nearly the same as an oem banshee but on a jump the front and rear extend out about 6" more. also when it wheelies the fronts drop down. again this is all my opinion coming from someone who has had both styles of shocks on multiple setups and raced both styles of shocks at one time many many moons ago. Whats your 2c on cornering with zps? Does the bike not have alot of body role? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So Cal Suspension Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 ZPS is nothing more than marketing acronym coined by PEP back in the day. The proper acronym is NPL: No PreLoad. NPL shocks are STILL widely used today on TT and XC bikes, and I build an ungodly amount of NPL shocks for the Lucas Oil Off Road Series. The main purpose is to keep the bike/truck lower to the ground and collapsing slightly, and allow DOWN travel. You do NOT, I repeat DO NOT lose any overall travel. The shocks still have the same amount of shaft, and the same amount of wheel travel. A lighter spring is used on the top, called a "tender spring". One purpose for this spring is to keep a little pressure on the primary coil so it doesn't come loose on the spring slider and slap around when the shock is re-compressed (after landing a jump, for example). The other huge advantage of running an NPL shock in a TT or XC bike, is that (as James said) it allows for MUCH finer tuning of the valving since you don't have 2 or 3 different springrates pushing against the rebound side while you're in the air. It keeps the speed of the rebound constant, rather than having springs constantly pushing up against it. The "unsprung weight" controls the speed of the rebound, and is always a constant force. As a spring compresses, is takes an exponential amount of force to keep compressing the spring. This is why springs are measured in LB/IN, LB/FT, or KG/MM. Without confusing anyone any more than I have, NPL shocks have their place. They are not suited to be used on EVERY bike for EVERY riding condition. They are not BETTER than any other shock for any reason. They are designed to be used on a specific type of bike, for a specific purpose. I wouldn't put NPL shocks designed for the front of a Lucas truck, and expect it to perform the same in Baja. It just won't happen. This picture is of Robby Gordon's rear suspension used on his Redbull Class 1 a few years ago. Notice how low to the ground it sits, and that it uses NPL. This car will pull 30" of rear wheel travel, EASILY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So Cal Suspension Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Whats your 2c on cornering with zps? Does the bike not have alot of body role? Just my two cents, but cornering with an NPL setup is going to be squishy, unless it's used in conjunction with an anti sway bar. A lot of the diehard TT/FT and XC guys run anti sway bars to pick where the NPL lacks... cornering... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350skabarat Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 ZPS is nothing more than marketing acronym coined by PEP back in the day. The proper acronym is NPL: No PreLoad. NPL shocks are STILL widely used today on TT and XC bikes, and I build an ungodly amount of NPL shocks for the Lucas Oil Off Road Series. The main purpose is to keep the bike/truck lower to the ground and collapsing slightly, and allow DOWN travel. You do NOT, I repeat DO NOT lose any overall travel. The shocks still have the same amount of shaft, and the same amount of wheel travel. A lighter spring is used on the top, called a "tender spring". One purpose for this spring is to keep a little pressure on the primary coil so it doesn't come loose on the spring slider and slap around when the shock is re-compressed (after landing a jump, for example). The other huge advantage of running an NPL shock in a TT or XC bike, is that (as James said) it allows for MUCH finer tuning of the valving since you don't have 2 or 3 different springrates pushing against the rebound side while you're in the air. It keeps the speed of the rebound constant, rather than having springs constantly pushing up against it. The "unsprung weight" controls the speed of the rebound, and is always a constant force. As a spring compresses, is takes an exponential amount of force to keep compressing the spring. This is why springs are measured in LB/IN, LB/FT, or KG/MM. Without confusing anyone any more than I have, NPL shocks have their place. They are not suited to be used on EVERY bike for EVERY riding condition. They are not BETTER than any other shock for any reason. They are designed to be used on a specific type of bike, for a specific purpose. I wouldn't put NPL shocks designed for the front of a Lucas truck, and expect it to perform the same in Baja. It just won't happen. Shot thanx Matt, you always make shit clear as day! HAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick2stroke Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Gotta watch out for Matt, he has a disease called knowledge and he WILL infect you with it if you read his posts like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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