twistingixxers Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Hey guys, new to banshees and trying gather information for next build. Starting off here is what I have 03 with +3 timing advance, tors removal, boost bottle, FMF fatties gold series, V-F3 reeds, tusks heavy duty clutch, stock cylinders and stock carbs. The bike runs great, not sure on the compression but at tops it only requires 2-3 kicks to start cold. I am trying to decide which would be a better route for the type of riding I do 4 mil crank stock cylinders or 4 mil Cheetah cub the type of riding I do is trails in some cases but mainly open flat fields, novice mx and sometimes 300 ft drag races,. I have searched this forum as well as a few other forums to get a somewhat detailed breakdown on pros / cons and or overview of one set up over the other. I am pretty sure this has been discussed, so to those who may have saved a link and or thread, please include in response. My questions: 4 mil ported stock cylinders vs 4 mil cub……Performance….. Would the ported stock cylinder set up perform the same or in the ball park of a 4 mil cub. Which set up would giver more over all power or faster set up. Can someone give a description of the difference in the two setup if they have had experience with both. What would be some additional items needed with each set up-such as carbs, pipes and gearing. Thanks in advance for the insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach45 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 I have a ported 4mil in stock jugs.. I love the set tips. Power everywhere I trail ride never drag... I also run a -2 swingarm... I have toomeys and 28pwks If I went to a better pipe and bigger carbs I could probably see 5-10more go easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistingixxers Posted April 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) I have a ported 4mil in stock jugs.. I love the set tips. Power everywhere I trail ride never drag... I also run a -2 swingarm... I have toomeys and 28pwks If I went to a better pipe and bigger carbs I could probably see 5-10more go easily Hey Zach, thanks for the feedback....Good Stuff...!! You mentioned that you enjoy the "set tips". If you don't mind, can you break that down a little more for me? I am not sure what you mean by "set tips". I have been trail riding a few times and when I rode on trials that were "slow pace" I think the stock carbs sorta loaded up. My bike began to pop. There was another banshee rider with us and he said that he needed to open up his bike a little. We made it to this gravel road and he made a couple passes. I did the same thing and the bike stopped popping as much. He said that banshees prefer the higher rpms and sometimes opening the bike up clears the carbs. Did you have any port work done to your cylinders? -2 swingarm..?? Are implying that your swing arm is 2 inches shorter than stock or 2 inches narrower? What type of Toomeys do you have 5's or 6's? What type of gas do you run and with your current set up how many HP do you have? Edited April 26, 2012 by twistingixxers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakar Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 im about to make the 4mm leap myself since trying a buddys ported stock jugg 4 and 7 mm shee's .id like to go 10mm but instead im going with the 4 mm with dune/play port.it ll be like a whole new bike ,power everywhere + you can run stock carbs,basket,clutch ......... well for awhile anyway. gooodluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistingixxers Posted April 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 im about to make the 4mm leap myself since trying a buddys ported stock jugg 4 and 7 mm shee's .id like to go 10mm but instead im going with the 4 mm with dune/play port.it ll be like a whole new bike ,power everywhere + you can run stock carbs,basket,clutch ......... well for awhile anyway. gooodluck Thanks for the info Shakar....Good Stuff..!! Currently is your bike stock? If not, what type of mods has your bike had and what were some of the noticeable differences from the stock setup? You mentioned that your buddy has ported stock cylinders on a 4 mil and 7 mil. Is is possible to run a 7 mil setup with stock cyliners? What were the differences between the two and do you know any additional mods on the 4 mil and 7 mil? For your upcoming build, will you be doing the work yourself or sending it a builder? What type of riding do you do with your current setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Thanks for the info Shakar....Good Stuff..!! Currently is your bike stock? If not, what type of mods has your bike had and what were some of the noticeable differences from the stock setup? You mentioned that your buddy has ported stock cylinders on a 4 mil and 7 mil. Is is possible to run a 7 mil setup with stock cyliners? What were the differences between the two and do you know any additional mods on the 4 mil and 7 mil? For your upcoming build, will you be doing the work yourself or sending it a builder? What type of riding do you do with your current setup? 7mil stroke is the most you can go without extensive cylinder work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistingixxers Posted April 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 7mil stroke is the most you can go without extensive cylinder work. Oh ok. Have you ever ridden a bike with a 7 mil set up...Its it more of a drag setup? How does it performs in regards to a stroked stock cylinder setup or a stroke cub setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcardracing Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 I can set up stock cylinders for whatever riding application you prefer. The longer crank stroke will give the engine a more broad torque curve and added displacement. +4mm stroke is the largest you can go without case modifications, +7 is the largest you can go without re-sleeving the cylinders. As for your questions on the cub cylinders: They are capable of producing more hp than stock cylinders, but are more expensive as well. I would suggest you decide what your budget is and look towards a Serval or ported stock cylinder setup based on the riding you described. The Serval could later be ported to cub specs or somewhere in between. -Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach45 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Hey Zach, thanks for the feedback....Good Stuff...!! You mentioned that you enjoy the "set tips". If you don't mind, can you break that down a little more for me? I am not sure what you mean by "set tips". I have been trail riding a few times and when I rode on trials that were "slow pace" I think the stock carbs sorta loaded up. My bike began to pop. There was another banshee rider with us and he said that he needed to open up his bike a little. We made it to this gravel road and he made a couple passes. I did the same thing and the bike stopped popping as much. He said that banshees prefer the higher rpms and sometimes opening the bike up clears the carbs. Did you have any port work done to your cylinders? -2 swingarm..?? Are implying that your swing arm is 2 inches shorter than stock or 2 inches narrower? What type of Toomeys do you have 5's or 6's? What type of gas do you run and with your current set up how many HP do you have? I dono where "set tips" came from lol... Probably from me trying to do 10 things at once... But I'm ported by denny at flotek performance... Great guy to deal with. I run t5's, and my swing arm is 2 inches shorter. I never put my bike on a dyno... But I'm told I should be mid 70's or so... Shears, 33 and smaller domes. I could prob gain quite a bit, but I love my setup as is... Tons and tons of power everywhere and plenty of bottom end... Oh an I run The highest pump gas I can find... Usually 91/93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistingixxers Posted April 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 I can set up stock cylinders for whatever riding application you prefer. The longer crank stroke will give the engine a more broad torque curve and added displacement. +4mm stroke is the largest you can go without case modifications, +7 is the largest you can go without re-sleeving the cylinders. As for your questions on the cub cylinders: They are capable of producing more hp than stock cylinders, but are more expensive as well. I would suggest you decide what your budget is and look towards a Serval or ported stock cylinder setup based on the riding you described. The Serval could later be ported to cub specs or somewhere in between. -Brandon Thanks Brandon...!! Just the type of response I was looking for...GREAT STUFF...!! +4 Stroke is the largest I would be able to go without case modification...Note Taken. More torque? Approximately how much? Once again Thanks for the information..!! Clear, sweet and to the point.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheerider11 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 I have a MX/ hardcore port from hjr, 4 mil, 35 pwks, t5, 20cc domes. I came from a bone stock bike. Pipes and that's it. First time getting on it, it scared the shit out of me. It stood up the first 3 gears on the street and 4 rode out about a foot off the ground. Properly set up 4 mil stockers can run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistingixxers Posted April 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 I dono where "set tips" came from lol... Probably from me trying to do 10 things at once... But I'm ported by denny at flotek performance... Great guy to deal with. I run t5's, and my swing arm is 2 inches shorter. I never put my bike on a dyno... But I'm told I should be mid 70's or so... Shears, 33 and smaller domes. I could prob gain quite a bit, but I love my setup as is... Tons and tons of power everywhere and plenty of bottom end... Oh an I run The highest pump gas I can find... Usually 91/93 No problem with the "set tips"...Sorta threw me for a minute, thought it was terminology that I wasn't familiar with. What really threw me for a loop is when I first started looking on this f.orum and a member referred to cylinders as "juggs" I was like WTF are juggs..? Then I fugured it out. Denny at flotek? I will have to look that up. I have heard names thrown up quite a few times, Kevin and another guys seems to be the go to guys. With a shorter swing arm I'm assuming its pretty hard to the front end down especially playing around the 70 hp range. What are Shears? With tons of low end power (pros) what are some things that aren't so good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toytech Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) shearers are bad ass pipes, I had fast racing do a agressive dune port for my 4mil, I run 35mm carbs and R2 pipes, I have a +4 swingarm and it still stands up in 3 gears. I would call Jeff @fast racing, Brandon@Wildcard racing, or Kevin@HJR, talk to all 3 and decide for yourself who you want to do your port work, they are all great. Edited April 27, 2012 by toytech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ticktock Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Brandon and Jeff will get you both going in the right direction. Either will answer your questions and make sure that you are getting exactually what you want. Most importantly they will set you up with the best performing machine. I have no experience with HJR, but their motors run strong. It's all about dealing with who you click with. Sounds like you know you are going 4mil in the future so keep an eye out for a 4mil crank!! There have been a few forsale lately. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ban565 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I have a 4mill stock cylinder drag poted by twistercrankshaft that is ahoot to ride if you mind the front wheels rarely touching the ground I also have a 10 mil both are duners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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