Coupelx Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 For what snop does maybe the are the best pipe but i just have a real hard time with them being the best for anything else especially power oriented maybe andrew3160 can chime in with what he thinks of his in a drag race. my halfass ported stock stroke and r2's pretty consistently outran his FAST 4mil with PC's. he changed to shearers and we have a rematch scheduled for the end of march these pics were taken consecutively by matscss at the bhq ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRed350x Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Man, this is why I hate dyno's. If you like what you have and you enjoy riding it, who gives a crap what it did on the dyno?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Limit Powersports Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 <br />The bike was jetted conservatively. An a/f meter was not used. We had no reason to lean the bike out to make the pc's look better. I had nothing to gain by making the pro circuits look better than the other pipes. I did the testing to find out what worked best for my bike. I could care less what people run on their bikes. It seems like you have an answer or reason for why our testing was inconclusive so I'm done here. I guess everyone will have to wait until a reputable builder has time to put all the different setups on the same dyno with the same bike in the same day to find out what the best setup is.<br /><br /><br /><br /> Ok lets just calm down a little there. I never discredited anything you or your partner have done or tested. This is an open forum and the reason myself and others love the forum is to discuss learn and get ideas. If your only interested in defending your pipe and carb choice and being hard headed we are just spinning our wheels and in that case I'm done here as well. What I'm trying to do is discuss your findings and mine and maybe give you some insight on why we use what combos we do and learn from yours as well. What you dont get is that I'm not a pipe builder I'm am engine builder I dont care what pipe works the best I'm just concerned that I know what works the best. Now if your interested into discussing ill keep sharing information and keep this an open forum if not no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Man, this is why I hate dyno's. If you like what you have and you enjoy riding it, who gives a crap what it did on the dyno?? On the flip side....your view is why I like dyno's. Everybody likes what they have and thinks it runs great. We have a guy who makes 65 HP with FMF's and single carb on a dune ported 370 motor. He kicks the SNOT out of another friend who has Toomey T-5's with 35 PWK's on a 421 cub motor. So with the seat of the pants dyno experts out there........We would have to conclude that - #1 - FMF 's out run T-5's #2 - A single carb makes more power than 2 #3 - a good 370 motor is better to own than a cub #4 - And dyno's must lie, because a 65 HP bike is beating a 421 cub. Members have claimed their 421 cubs have made 99HP with T-5's....So either 421's only make 60 HP, or a 370 can make 100. A dyno is a tool for tuning and research. It's not about mine vs. yours....it's about Before and After. We FIND on average 5-7 HP on the 2-strokes we dyno. 2-3 HP on 4-strokes. And ALL of the owners think they know how to jet and read plugs! But they ALL pick up tons of mid power, better idle and more peak. A dyno makes your bike fuel injected....YOU are the ECM, and the dyno is all your sensors. The Tune is still up to the computer...and the computer is YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) The Problem here is, everybody is looking at peak numbers, and hell even the normal forum members are worried about how they stack up in a drag race. The Serval has port timings that serve as a motor you ride for MORE lower end and midrange hp. I look at those dyno runs for overall curve, torque backup, and ease of using the powerband when I am riding a sand trail, negotiating whoops, corners, and tree shots. If you search back to every post on here were I make a recommendation for carb setup, the only time 28mm carbs is recommended is when someone is asking about how to setup a low-mid motor with a smaller bore. I have recommended Single carbs as well, and still stand behind that for certain applications. I have also recommended twin setups on 30mm, 32mm, 33mm, 35mm, and 38mm setups. As well as larger singles in 35mm, and 38mm. So I completely call bullshit on that accusation. If Shane would have wanted more top end and less acceleration speed from his Serval (which he didn't), we would have went with a 30-32mm carb. We may have been able to put Lectrons on it and maintain most of the bottom end, but the cost investment to do that would have almost cost as much as his serval cylinders did. Wih the pro circuits being the right pipe choice for low-mid, it comes from riding bikes with different motor combination with all sorts of different pipes. Then dyno testing setups with different pipes as well. I dont know how many of you realize this, but I used to ride with a fleet of banshees. Between my family, and my friends there are 13 banshees, 14 if you count the one I owned (that was the third banshee I have owned). There is only one with un-ported cylinders on it. None of them run stock pipes. Every single one of the bikes is built for low-mid hp and torque. A couple of them are chopped cubs that dyno'ed at 96hp on a loaded crank dyno with a water brake. If you want to drag race, stay away from pro circuits. If you want to get a dune port, and recreational ride and drag race your buddies, stay away from the pro circuits. If you want that MX port, or trail port, and you want an ass ripping grunting low end to midrange machine with the 2 stroke top end we love, look at getting pro circuits. I had skeptics even in my camp when we went into dyno this bike, and everyone there who saw what started to transpire, knows what I thought held truth. The laws of two stroke theory completely applied to what we found. We ran every run identical with the fan, temperatures, etc...... Oh, and the bike was re-jetted for each pipe setup we ran as well. Not all the dyno charts out there are on this site. Nate McCoy has charts from shearers, cpi's, t5's, etc...... as well. His RPM numbers lined up with ours. The guy who ran the dyno on our runs had no stake in this motor, he did not build it, he didn't even know about the serval when we took it there. Everything he usually dyno tests is drag bikes (banshees and Raptors). Edited March 6, 2012 by Snopczynski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) As far as that drag race with the pics up top, one major difference I can spot in the picture between the two bikes is the rear tires. One guy is running a lighter wheel/tire combo than the other. 8" rim Buffed haulers can get about 1.5 lengths on the same bike with 10" rim standard casing haulers (at least it looks like the red bike has 10" rimmed paddles on it). Just something I noticed in the pics. Edited March 6, 2012 by Snopczynski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Reynolds Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I wanna see a loaded run with a briggs and stratton pipe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrockMoto Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I know this is an old post... but I'm curious of everyone's thoughts on PT mids with a serval as well as 916's... I like both those pipes but don't want to run them if pc is way better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 If I had to guess what they would do based on other dyno setups I have ran them on, they would be 1-2 horse under the pc's across the entire board. At peak rpm they would shut off about 500 rpm less than the pc's would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camatv Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 For what snop does maybe the are the best pipe but i just have a real hard time with them being the best for anything else especially power oriented maybe andrew3160 can chime in with what he thinks of his in a drag race. my halfass ported stock stroke and r2's pretty consistently outran his FAST 4mil with PC's. he changed to shearers and we have a rematch scheduled for the end of march these pics were taken consecutively by matscss at the bhq ride. i raced both these bikes with my wife's 350 with cpi's and what was it like 5-10 length's+ for the win? and i outweigh you both by about 120lbs - 150 + one of the funnest play dunes bikes i ever owned was an alky 350 with real porting and PC pipes. i dont really have anything to comment about the dyno stuff.. sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie B Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 I don't want to add fuel to the fire but Daj (old mod here) said he hit 80hp on the dyno with a 421 cub and stock carbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge1 Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 i raced both these bikes with my wife's 350 with cpi's and what was it like 5-10 length's+ for the win? and i outweigh you both by about 120lbs - 150 + one of the funnest play dunes bikes i ever owned was an alky 350 with real porting and PC pipes. i dont really have anything to comment about the dyno stuff.. sorry What you forgot to mention is that your wife's play bike is a full drag port! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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