phunt Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Get a slower more constant bike to test against, set him out see how long it takes to catch him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I have never ran sand but you can still control the tire, with out any timing system the only other option is to use someone as a guinepig( like a sparing partner) use him to see if you speed up or slow down. Another thing if the track is not there guys don't chase it, its like trying to hit a curve ball. Talking about chasing the track. I look at it a little differently. We don't like to chase the clutch if the track is good or bad. Once you get your clutch refined/tuned, like we had our Cub set-up. To give an example: we started on asphalt, went to the dunes hill shooting & finally to 300'. Now we alternate between asphalt & 300'. The only thing we changed for the hill was adding a small amount of arm weight. Since we have done that, we have not changed the weight for any of the surfaces. Thanks for all the info. Have you played with your tuning much on sand? We race in the dunes and do not have the benefit of a groomed/consistent surface or timing lights to accurately measure changes. I've played with my base pressure some ( in the dunes) and found the results hard to discern because of the reasons I mentioned. Any thoughts/ theories on that? Thanks Sent from a van down by the river That's pretty much where I ended up. Ha. ! The surface is constantly changing and the guy that I would compare changes against would too. ( rider error or sand conditions etc). We deal with ruts, whoops, etc and the sand changes moisture levels depending how deep in a rut you are in. ..and it drys as the day goes along....most of the time. Sent from a van down by the river Sprinkles, I know we have talked about this a little bit. LOL! You dune guys are in a tuff spot, but I've been there. Our 1st transition to a different area from asphalt was the dunes. We had pulled high 1.30 60's on asphalt. We were reasonably confident we could do well at the dunes and we did. Well as we all know dune racing is very subjective. Our baseline criteria was my butt dyno, LOL! Plus, running against a name builder's well sorted out 535 alky Cheetah beating it 3 times in a row with a 443 gas Cub & our 1st time on sand. While our transitions to the different areas is totally different than yours. There's one thing in common, you have to measure (time) a certain distance for clutch tuning. I'll bring up 3 different ways, but with any of them it still takes a lot of time! #1 - Become a track bike for a minimum of 1 year. IMO, A fast track bike will make a fast dune bike & vice versa. Even though the conditions are drastically different. While we never got a time slip on the dunes. Our asphalt/dune set-up transitioned very well to 300' for the 1st time out with low mid to low 1.30 60's. #2 - Spend the money to data log your set-up. There are systems out there that can provide you the information you need at a reasonable cost. I know enough about them to be dangerous. So, if that's your route. It's up to you to figure out or talk to the right people. I know of one member here that does it, it's up to him if he will chime in. IMO, that is the direction you need to take. Plus, it will help in other areas besides the clutch. #3 - Set-up cones at a known distance & time with a video. It's not the most accurate, but it does provide good information. We stumbled on to that by accident using a truck that was parked part of the way up the hill when we were taping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Thanks for all the info. Have you played with your tuning much on sand? We race in the dunes and do not have the benefit of a groomed/consistent surface or timing lights to accurately measure changes. I've played with my base pressure some ( in the dunes) and found the results hard to discern because of the reasons I mentioned. Any thoughts/ theories on that? Thanks Sent from a van down by the river Get a radar gun and at least mark your start and finish points for a little more consistency. Maybe tripod the radar or aim it out 60 ft a few runs. Then the 100, the 200 or what ever distances you guys run. Finishing Mph is an ok guide but if you can watch your speed 60 ft out it might help you. Maybe take a big beach rake to get the line nice and consistent at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Yeah, cones are cheap and easy. Surveyors wheels are cheap as well so you are accurate. Also, an IPhone aimed at the side of the bike from about 10 foot out helps to. Maybe a white mark on the side wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinklerman Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Yeah, cones are cheap and easy. Surveyors wheels are cheap as well so you are accurate. Also, an IPhone aimed at the side of the bike from about 10 foot out helps to. Maybe a white mark on the side wall? I can see how that might help..but I don't see it being accurate enough to measure consistently in the smaller increments of time needed. ( .10 or less) Then you have the issue of hauling all that stuff ( measuring wheel, cones, a rake to groom the area with..) out to the drag area on a drag bike with an override.. I wish I could rely on my butt dyno..but it's not calibrated very well. Sent from a van down by the river Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunt Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) I tested a Digitron this year, rpm,egt,and mph I just used mph to see what my clutch was doing, you can load your run to a labtop and see what it doing it reads .005 increments. Edited February 2, 2014 by phunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunt Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 How do you post pic and I'll put some up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinklerman Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 How do you post pic and I'll put some up.Photobucket .....or Tapatalk if on your phone. Sent from a van down by the river Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I tested a Digitron this year, rpm,egt,and mph I just used mph to see what my clutch was doing, you can load your run to a labtop and see what it doing it reads .005 increments. Thanks phunt for posting up some tuning information. It gives a different outlook on what's going on & how it helps with performance. The initial reason I started this thread was to provide some basic clutch tuning information. Then I was hoping to have some good interaction in the thread with different member's experiences from the thread. Now I know of 2 members using data logging for information. I use the old fashion way of data logging on the track, mathematics. When on the dunes we use a combination of the track set-up & the butt dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I can see how that might help..but I don't see it being accurate enough to measure consistently in the smaller increments of time needed. ( .10 or less) Then you have the issue of hauling all that stuff ( measuring wheel, cones, a rake to groom the area with..) out to the drag area on a drag bike with an override.. I wish I could rely on my butt dyno..but it's not calibrated very well. Sent from a van down by the river ever heard of a G-tech? Maybe one of those can get you close may be a tenth or so off but it will get you a number that you can go off. They can mount in lots of race cars all sorts of ways so I bet they can be set up on the bars. Plus they save the run for you to look at. Might be easier then the gear I mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidr Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 2.68 seems to be way harder to tune than stock ratio guess the clutch is spinning faster???? Been catching hell goin to put some stock ratios in it in start over... anyone else been through this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozer Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 2.68 seems to be way harder to tune than stock ratio guess the clutch is spinning faster???? Been catching hell goin to put some stock ratios in it in start over... anyone else been through this if memory serves you're correct on the harder tune. its been talked about before, don't know if it was in this thread or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidr Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Dozer thx for the feedback... it took me 3 days of tuning to figure out what was different then my othe setups n it was the damn primaries he'll p rolly the most imp factor lol.... no matter what I did it was either to soft or smoking the tires I think the only way I could get a happy medium is with a Bigger rear tire... but im just really learning so thats y im looking for some feedback thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidr Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I have ran the 2.68 in some bigger bikes but ran 20.5 ar and had good luck just can't seem to get a grip on this cub with 20 in ar with the 2.68... any feedback app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 if memory serves you're correct on the harder tune. its been talked about before, don't know if it was in this thread or not. It hasn't been talked about in this thread, that I know of. I will give a quick opinion later in this post. 2.68 seems to be way harder to tune than stock ratio guess the clutch is spinning faster???? Been catching hell goin to put some stock ratios in it in start over... anyone else been through this Dozer thx for the feedback... it took me 3 days of tuning to figure out what was different then my othe setups n it was the damn primaries he'll p rolly the most imp factor lol.... no matter what I did it was either to soft or smoking the tires I think the only way I could get a happy medium is with a Bigger rear tire... but im just really learning so thats y im looking for some feedback thx I have ran the 2.68 in some bigger bikes but ran 20.5 ar and had good luck just can't seem to get a grip on this cub with 20 in ar with the 2.68... any feedback app The 2.68 does spin the clutch faster. We have ran both the 2.68 & 2.86 primaries with out a problem, but we ran a multi-stage clutch. With that set-up we was able to slow the lock-up engagement down to compensate. We have also ran a 2.54 primary in the DMX & was having troubles with that. Going back to the 2.68s or 2.86 depending on the distance we are running. As for running quick/fast on a AR. Our tire of choice is the 20x8 & even we get the DMX back on asphalt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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