xander450 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 First off, this is on an RZ350 road bike which has a basically identical motor to the banshee, except with power valves (and some minor unrelated things). Second thing is, we didn't get the kit's master cylinder.... we ordered everything but the master bc we were hoping to use a matching set. So here's the deal - we set it up, bled, etc and found that the clutch pull is EXTREMELY stiff. No amount of adjusting seems to change that fact. Any ideas why that would be? The MC is 14mm, which is possible a mm or two larger than the one that comes with the kit. Is that the likely culprit? I can sort of justify that logic to myself, but it's a huge hassle setting this thing up (not to mention acquiring a 12mm clutch master), so I want to be fairly sure I'm right before I go down that road. Any input/thoughts from those who have run the streamline setup would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKheathen Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 well, the math says that what to do the same work as 10# of pull on the 12mm master would require 13-14# of pull on the 14mm master, so just how much harder is the pull? (1.36x should be right) if it's more than that, i would look at other factors, such as hd clutch springs, lever geometry/adjustment, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camatv Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 if you didnt buy the "kit" as it was intended and now your not happy. hmmmm hyd clutches pull about the same as a cable they just auto adjust if set up right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xander450 Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) Thanks AKHeathen, that's what I was looking for - what's the formula for that relationship? I know how to calculate appropriate MC sizes relative to brakes, but a bit out in the woods here on pull force. Camatv - it's not nearly as simple as that, but thanks, that was fantastically useful. The "kit" is a master cylinder, slave cylinder and a bit of bracketry. They didn't exactly invent hydraulics is my point here - any MC of the same size will do just exactly the same thing. So why not buy the kit? Because the streamline MC appears to interfere with the other bar controls (as mentioned above, this is on an RZ, not a banshee). And why test on a 14mm MC? Because we had one lying around. Suppose I'd said I'd installed the kit and I found the action too light, or travel too short. Someone who knew something about hydraulics would likely suggest a change in MC size. Someone who bought speed in kit form would tell me to buy a different kit. Edited August 2, 2011 by xander450 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooker82 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) Someone who bought speed in kit form would tell me to buy a different kit. Or they would have just expcted the Manufacture to have done the research on the proper size realation ship between the Master cylinder and slave cylinder. No need to try to reinvent the wheel. Edited August 2, 2011 by jbooker82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk421Shee Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I had one on my 450, bitch to bleed and set up in the freezing cold but once it was on its was super easy to pull!! Too easy infact. Id say thats its not working correctly or like you say the MC is not doing its job for that slave cylinder. Deffo thinking about one for my Banshee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camatv Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 oh i'm sorry i would have just assumed that since you had pieced together some crap and then had a problem that maybe the issue was with the part that was not designed buy the company that had origianlly designed the entire clutch set up to work as they had intended, i mean surely "they" people at streamline would have had all those hydralic relations and formulas figured out and that maybe why they had sold the hydralic clutch assembled and matched as a set. i guess i am a lot wrong to think that if i really felt i needed something like hydraulic clutch that i might actually trust the company to supply me with a "kit" that they had spent untold $$$ to research and develop over a period of time that i wouldnt have to bother with all the $$$$ and hassel of trying to get somethign else to work that wasnt right... or maybe evena simple phone call to t he company to ask what the relationship was of the larger master cylinder you had to the smaller slave cylinder that you purchased.. i guess i'm just wrong in thinking that beating your head against the wall because you mismatched stuff is a lil insane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xander450 Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Ohh, I totally just worked it out. I didn't use the kit. That's why it's broke. If anyone's got formulas for relative travel and pull force, would be much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKheathen Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 pretty simple math, really.... not even bothering with other factors such as piston/seal drag, or cable drag, simply the area of one piston divided by the area of the other gives your ratio for puling force, which came to roughly 1.36:1....... to find your travel difference, pick a number, like 10mm, or whatever, and find the cc's it pushes (again simple area x distance) and devide by the area of the other. i do see what you are saying, though, and true, you should be able to mix/match master/slave setups all you want, but if it was a little hard to pull in the begining, a larger bore mc is just going to make it worse...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xander450 Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Got it - exactly what I was looking for, thanks. And yes, going about this in this way is more time consuming (and expensive) than just dropping an already worked out kit on it - but if I know what MC size works, I have the option of using a master cylinder with a brake light switch (keep in mind, this is on a street bike), remote reservoir, side-exit line that doesn't conflict with the other bar controls... in short, I can use what I actually need. Thanks again. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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