My Banshee doesn't like water problem, need advice.

[350iroc]

I'm having a problem when I encounter wet/muddy conditions with my Banshee. When the trail gets sloppy my quad starts to run like crap. As soon as I hit a puddle the throttle acts like its sticking but its not. The rpm's increase enough and act like a cruise control. As soon as you bip the throttle the RPM's come down to normal but the engine starts to run like crap. The air box is dry so I know no water is getting in there. I drove her back to camp and changed the plugs and drove down the gravel street a few times. At first she was perfect and slowly got worse with the same issue described above. I only have this problem when its wet out. Would water getting into the fly wheel cover produce this issue? Possible Air leak cause this? My tors are removed from the carbs and run the air box lid but with the snorkel removed. The motor I'm using is brand new this year. I need to mention I was having this same problem with my old motor. I reused the carbs and wiring harness from the old motor including my Ricky Stator for my second set of head lights. Any advice as I can't take this anymore!

[Jereme6655]

I'm having a problem when I encounter wet/muddy conditions with my Banshee. When the trail gets sloppy my quad starts to run like crap. As soon as I hit a puddle the throttle acts like its sticking but its not. The rpm's increase enough and act like a cruise control. As soon as you bip the throttle the RPM's come down to normal but the engine starts to run like crap. The air box is dry so I know no water is getting in there. I drove her back to camp and changed the plugs and drove down the gravel street a few times. At first she was perfect and slowly got worse with the same issue described above. I only have this problem when its wet out. Would water getting into the fly wheel cover produce this issue? Possible Air leak cause this? My tors are removed from the carbs and run the air box lid but with the snorkel removed. The motor I'm using is brand new this year. I need to mention I was having this same problem with my old motor. I reused the carbs and wiring harness from the old motor including my Ricky Stator for my second set of head lights. Any advice as I can't take this anymore!

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of the 26mm mikuni carb. We have no idea why they do it.....but there's been speculation as to why they stick when they get slightly wet. And yes....it is your carb getting stuck. The throttle cable isn't what sticks.....its the carb slides that get stuck.

 

There are a few choices to help you out.....

 

you can buy new carbs...but it could get expensive depending on the carbs you want..... OR.... you can keep your banshee out of water. Its a 2wd higher speed SPORT quad......not a utility..... it would be like asking why a corvette isn't handling driving down logging roads so great. or asking why you don't see cement trucks racing on road courses.

 

There have been a few people who have speculated on what causes the 26 to jam up for a quick minute like that.....no one really has come up with a guarenteed fix. most just wind up saying that it is just easier to change out carbs.

[ECshee]

Could be a wet electrical system. I had an issue like that. Dielectric grease every plug and connection and if need be unwrap and rewrap your whole harness... maybe even twice. Heat shrink open wires and whatnot.

[camatv]

sell the bike..

 

 

avoid water..

[TwistedSheeRida]

x2 on what ecshee said. One of the more obvious spots is the spark plug caps, pull the caps toss some die electric grease in there and try it out. had it happen to mine the spark was actually coming outside of the plug and hitting the nut on the plug. Havent had a problem since.

[350iroc]

x2 on what ecshee said. One of the more obvious spots is the spark plug caps, pull the caps toss some die electric grease in there and try it out. had it happen to mine the spark was actually coming outside of the plug and hitting the nut on the plug. Havent had a problem since.

 

I had a buddy at camp also with a Banshee and we switched coils to see what would happen. Same result on mine and his ran fine. We both have the same stock carbs with T.O.R.E.S. removed but this has never ever happened to him. In fact I have around 4 friends with Banshee's this has never happened to. We ride the same trails in the same mud and water and I'm the only on this happens to. I myself also lean towards carbs being the issue. It must be in the caps some way I would imagine. I'm going to save up for some 28mm PWK flat slides but now I'm clueless to how to jet her. I have all the normal mods: +4 timing, porting, phat head w/stock compression, FMF pipes, K&N filter, carbon fiber reeds, reed spacers. I live in Cleveland Oh and sit a Sea Level. It rains a ton so not getting wet is not a option. Any advice on jetting with the mods I have described above. Thanks in advance people. You guys are great!

[Jereme6655]

I had a buddy at camp also with a Banshee and we switched coils to see what would happen. Same result on mine and his ran fine. We both have the same stock carbs with T.O.R.E.S. removed but this has never ever happened to him. In fact I have around 4 friends with Banshee's this has never happened to. We ride the same trails in the same mud and water and I'm the only on this happens to. I myself also lean towards carbs being the issue. It must be in the caps some way I would imagine. I'm going to save up for some 28mm PWK flat slides but now I'm clueless to how to jet her. I have all the normal mods: +4 timing, porting, phat head w/stock compression, FMF pipes, K&N filter, carbon fiber reeds, reed spacers. I live in Cleveland Oh and sit a Sea Level. It rains a ton so not getting wet is not a option. Any advice on jetting with the mods I have described above. Thanks in advance people. You guys are great!

 

it very well could be in the caps like you believe.....im wondering if you have a slight leak/loose fitting cap and its sucking in a little water and jamming the carb slides. my suggestion would be to call a site sponsor and explain your problem and that your changing to a different carb and see what they recommend for a jetting starting point.....after that its up to you to do plug chops and tweak here and tweak there....

[RaulG]

i had this same annoying problem, it went away once i switch to bigger carbs, in my case 38mm heikin.

[muggzy]

We beat this horse to death a few months ago. I don't think it's electrical, the behavior (especially blipping the throttle) doesn't seem to support it. In my case, my filter was definitely getting wet. I intentionally sprayed it with water from a spray bottle and could reproduce the problem pretty much at-will. Even though your air box is "dry", I wouldn't be so sure you're not sucking the mist right through - these things are breathing pretty hard.

 

I've since done a few things and haven't suffered the problem since, but i have hit an occasional puddle pretty hard recently:

 

1) Thanks to a good friend, I replaced my drilled out air box lid with an unmodified one and removed the snorkel (I think you already said that this is what you're running)

2) I put an outerwear prefilter over my K & N stock style filter to help shed some of the water that might get in there.

3) I generally avoid mud and water (but this isn't always possible) and usually take them slow when I do.

4) I made some carb spring centering spacers out of ABS plastic in a 3D printer. They hold the springs dead center in the replacement carb caps and compress the spring slightly adding a little more force (maybe not even significant) to help close the slides without limiting WOT.

 

It always bugged me that the inside of the replacement caps didn't have those little centering tabs that the caps on the TORS caps had and therefore there's nothing to ensure the springs sit exactly straight in the cap and in fact could be pretty cocked up in the carb tops. In addition to guaranteeing the springs are centered, they add a small amount of compression to the springs as well. Now I can't say that these have fixed my problem, especially in light of the fact that I made all of the above changes at once. Nor have I gone back and tried to recreat the probelm with a spay bottle again (I'll see if I can later in the week). But last couple of times out, I hit some unavoidable puddles pretty hard and didn't experience the problem. It's also possible that I didn't hit them hard enough, or often enough but I did take a really thorough soaking myself to the point that I'm pretty sure I would have experienced the problem as I had in the past.

 

If you want to try the spacers/centering guides, let me know your addr and I'll send you couple. The only thing I'll ask is that you get back to me and let me know if there's any improvement. Even better if they're the ONLY mod you make - just to try and isolate any potential improvement.

 

Oh, and just to add to what Jereme6655 said; I also make damn sure the throttle cable ends are well seated and the little rubber boots are pulled down over the tops of the adjusting nuts. AND best of all "...... OR.... you can keep your banshee out of water. Its a 2wd higher speed SPORT quad......not a utility..... it would be like asking why a corvette isn't handling driving down logging roads so great. or asking why you don't see cement trucks racing on road courses."

 

But we both know this won't stop us from trying. Some of the people I ride with (also riding sport quads) can't believe some of the shit I do in the woods with my Banshee

[350iroc]

We beat this horse to death a few months ago. I don't think it's electrical, the behavior (especially blipping the throttle) doesn't seem to support it. In my case, my filter was definitely getting wet. I intentionally sprayed it with water from a spray bottle and could reproduce the problem pretty much at-will. Even though your air box is "dry", I wouldn't be so sure you're not sucking the mist right through - these things are breathing pretty hard.

 

I've since done a few things and haven't suffered the problem since, but i have hit an occasional puddle pretty hard recently:

 

1) Thanks to a good friend, I replaced my drilled out air box lid with an unmodified one and removed the snorkel (I think you already said that this is what you're running)

2) I put an outerwear prefilter over my K & N stock style filter to help shed some of the water that might get in there.

3) I generally avoid mud and water (but this isn't always possible) and usually take them slow when I do.

4) I made some carb spring centering spacers out of ABS plastic in a 3D printer. They hold the springs dead center in the replacement carb caps and compress the spring slightly adding a little more force (maybe not even significant) to help close the slides without limiting WOT.

 

It always bugged me that the inside of the replacement caps didn't have those little centering tabs that the caps on the TORS caps had and therefore there's nothing to ensure the springs sit exactly straight in the cap and in fact could be pretty cocked up in the carb tops. In addition to guaranteeing the springs are centered, they add a small amount of compression to the springs as well. Now I can't say that these have fixed my problem, especially in light of the fact that I made all of the above changes at once. Nor have I gone back and tried to recreat the probelm with a spay bottle again (I'll see if I can later in the week). But last couple of times out, I hit some unavoidable puddles pretty hard and didn't experience the problem. It's also possible that I didn't hit them hard enough, or often enough but I did take a really thorough soaking myself to the point that I'm pretty sure I would have experienced the problem as I had in the past.

 

If you want to try the spacers/centering guides, let me know your addr and I'll send you couple. The only thing I'll ask is that you get back to me and let me know if there's any improvement. Even better if they're the ONLY mod you make - just to try and isolate any potential improvement.

 

Oh, and just to add to what Jereme6655 said; I also make damn sure the throttle cable ends are well seated and the little rubber boots are pulled down over the tops of the adjusting nuts. AND best of all "...... OR.... you can keep your banshee out of water. Its a 2wd higher speed SPORT quad......not a utility..... it would be like asking why a corvette isn't handling driving down logging roads so great. or asking why you don't see cement trucks racing on road courses."

 

But we both know this won't stop us from trying. Some of the people I ride with (also riding sport quads) can't believe some of the shit I do in the woods with my Banshee

 

Thanks for the reply and offer on the spacers/centering guides. I would like to try them and report my findings if your willing.

To add to this post I went riding out in Omish country here in Ohio and it was dry as a bone down there. My quad ran good without issue. Its just and only when its muddy with puddles. I just don't trust the aftermarket Carb caps and rubber cable boots either I have. I really would just like to get a good set of flat slides and set it and forget it! I'm so so sick of taking these carbs apart time and time again. Can anyone say by switching to flatslides carbs this problem for sure goes away? If so the water/mist entering the air box should have the same effect on the flat slide replacements yes? On a side note I noticed your pilot jet was set to 27.5. Have you ever run a 30 and if so how did it act? I'm at 30 now with 320 main but the quad seams to gurgle once it gets hot. I so badly want to get this quad running near perfect. I've been doing this guessing game since 1995 and still have yet to get it right. Thanks again to everyone's input. This site rocks!

[Jereme6655]

Thanks for the reply and offer on the spacers/centering guides. I would like to try them and report my findings if your willing.

To add to this post I went riding out in Omish country here in Ohio and it was dry as a bone down there. My quad ran good without issue. Its just and only when its muddy with puddles. I just don't trust the aftermarket Carb caps and rubber cable boots either I have. I really would just like to get a good set of flat slides and set it and forget it! I'm so so sick of taking these carbs apart time and time again. Can anyone say by switching to flatslides carbs this problem for sure goes away? If so the water/mist entering the air box should have the same effect on the flat slide replacements yes? On a side note I noticed your pilot jet was set to 27.5. Have you ever run a 30 and if so how did it act? I'm at 30 now with 320 main but the quad seams to gurgle once it gets hot. I so badly want to get this quad running near perfect. I've been doing this guessing game since 1995 and still have yet to get it right. Thanks again to everyone's input. This site rocks!

 

my pilot was at 27.5 but i had one hell of a bog and it would pop around 5k rpm if i didn't have the air screws at 1.0 turns out or less.......so this weekend i jumped my pilot up to a 30...seems to have gotten rid of most of the off idle boggy feel. also took my needle clip up one notch from the 4th down.....she was REALLY garglie (struggled to get it on the pipe unless i was stabbing into the throttle and it was coming on the pipe really late). moved the needle to the middle position and it really helped.

 

now im really close on the jetting so i just need a few more little test and tune moments and i should be good.

[muggzy]

Thanks for the reply and offer on the spacers/centering guides. I would like to try them ...

I just don't trust the aftermarket Carb caps and rubber cable boots either I have.

 

PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a pair.

 

I really would just like to get a good set of flat slides and set it and forget it! I'm so so sick of taking these carbs apart time and time again. Can anyone say by switching to flatslides carbs this problem for sure goes away? If so the water/mist entering the air box should have the same effect on the flat slide replacements yes?

 

We all seem to agree that the water on the filters should cause a rich or "choked" condition. That won't change no matter what carb you're running. But at least part of the issue is the stock slides sticking when they're wet. There seems to be some other runaway situation that's also related and that we also believe is related to the stock carbs.

 

On a side note I noticed your pilot jet was set to 27.5. Have you ever run a 30 and if so how did it act? I'm at 30 now with 320 main but the quad seams to gurgle once it gets hot. I so badly want to get this quad running near perfect. I've been doing this guessing game since 1995 and still have yet to get it right. Thanks again to everyone's input. This site rocks!

 

my pilot was at 27.5 but i had one hell of a bog and it would pop around 5k rpm if i didn't have the air screws at 1.0 turns out or less.......so this weekend i jumped my pilot up to a 30...seems to have gotten rid of most of the off idle boggy feel. also took my needle clip up one notch from the 4th down.....she was REALLY garglie (struggled to get it on the pipe unless i was stabbing into the throttle and it was coming on the pipe really late). moved the needle to the middle position and it really helped.

 

now im really close on the jetting so i just need a few more little test and tune moments and i should be good.

 

I'm still working on my jetting since I put in the 21cc domes and I've considered going to the #30 pilots. There's considerable overlap in the carb circuits so going richer or leaner on the needle will also affect the pilot and main jetting. For instance, if your mains are perfect and lets say 300's and you move the clips down a notch (richer) on stock needles, you'll be a size too rich on the mains (which I prefer anyway) so you'd have to drop the mains to 290's to keep your WOT jetting the same. I'll try and remember to update you but I wont get to touch my jetting for several days at least.

Edited July 5, 2011 by muggzy

[Jereme6655]

MUGGZY.....that would be great if you could update me on your specs when you finally get your jetting dialed in...

[muggzy]

MUGGZY.....that would be great if you could update me on your specs when you finally get your jetting dialed in...

Yeah, it'll be interesting to compare. What's your set up like now?

[muggzy]

Yeah, it'll be interesting to compare. What's your set up like now?

 

Some kind of glitch on the forum wouldn't let me edit the reply so...

 

I'm really close too, but right now my last jetting run said I should be a little richer on my mains. Once I get the mains dialed in better (310 or 320), I'll know if I should move the needle clip back up a notch (leaner) and go up to #30 pilots (richer).

 

I'm at ~1000 ft altitude and the temp here is running in the 80s. Since I like to ride well into the fall, and I jet for reliability rather than every in-lb of torque, I'll definitely be looking to set it up on the rich side. Probably wont get to do it until after this weekend though. And maybe not until next Sat.