best woods mods?

[98bansheeMAN98]

so far all my new mods and current mods are P C pipes, v force reeds, trail ported, pro lite wiseco pistons, 28mm carbs, trinity stage VII cool head, 20cc domes, 2nd cooler, advanced timing set to +4, extended swinger, did 520 o ring chain, 15/40 gearing, 22x11x10 holeshot xcts on the rear, cheap ebay suspension improovement, lonestar steering stem, anti vibrate, renthal fat bars, auto meter temp gage, uni 2 stage filter, holes drilled in air box, dark grey powder coated frame, motion pro twist throttle, hinson racing clutch, have a racing cdi and make around 10500rpms, bored .020 over, soon to be .040 because of melted piston. thats pretty much it, just some decal work and bumpers and headlight covers. thats pretty much it. i run the lowest octane grade pump gas with klotz oil. mixed to 32:1. ive thought about the +2 a arms but i dont want it to be wider on a trail. i want more power if its possible. make it a more of a 450 dirt bike killer. now its a rocket in the woods the way its set up, and i have no problem opening it up on a back road, on the strip ive hit as high as 103mph. i didnt know if running a bigger rim like a 12 inch rim, would that help any? i like the big tire because ground clearence and it also give me a little more speed from it. whats some things i can do to help it perform better without changing my gearing or tire size?

[tedd1]

...soon to be .040 because of melted piston....

 

 

you run 87 octane with +4 and 20cc domes? that is asking for it to blow, run 93 pump.

 

[05Twin350]

P O R T

[Jereme6655]

low octane fuel + 2stroke oil (doesnt matter what kind) = KABOOM! hell even the owners manual for the banshees tell you to run like 91 octane minimum. But seriously....your going to blow it up from detonation. and proof or gtfo

[Thack82]

so far all my new mods and current mods are P C pipes, v force reeds, trail ported, pro lite wiseco pistons, 28mm carbs, trinity stage VII cool head, 20cc domes, 2nd cooler, advanced timing set to +4, extended swinger, did 520 o ring chain, 15/40 gearing, 22x11x10 holeshot xcts on the rear, cheap ebay suspension improovement, lonestar steering stem, anti vibrate, renthal fat bars, auto meter temp gage, uni 2 stage filter, holes drilled in air box, dark grey powder coated frame, motion pro twist throttle, hinson racing clutch, have a racing cdi and make around 10500rpms, bored .020 over, soon to be .040 because of melted piston. thats pretty much it, just some decal work and bumpers and headlight covers. thats pretty much it. i run the lowest octane grade pump gas with klotz oil. mixed to 32:1. ive thought about the +2 a arms but i dont want it to be wider on a trail. i want more power if its possible. make it a more of a 450 dirt bike killer. now its a rocket in the woods the way its set up, and i have no problem opening it up on a back road, on the strip ive hit as high as 103mph. i didnt know if running a bigger rim like a 12 inch rim, would that help any? i like the big tire because ground clearence and it also give me a little more speed from it. whats some things i can do to help it perform better without changing my gearing or tire size?

 

 

I can't believe your running 87 Octane Pump gas mixed 32:1 Klotz with a 20cc dome. Theres a sticker on the top of the tank that says run high octane un-leaded pre-mix only, and thats in stock form. I called Trinity before I bought my Stage IV Cool Head and they told me that 21cc Domes were the smallest Domes I could run on strictly 93 Octane. If I went to a 20cc dome or smaller I had to up the octane by adding octane booster, or mix 93 octane 50/50 with either Blue Aviation Fuel "100+ Octane, or Race fuel 110 Octane". Advancing your Timing 4° is going to factor in on this as well. I usually buy Klotz Octane Booster, or the little clear tear open ROCKET 2 STROKE OCTANE BOOST from Derby Cycle. The Rocket Octane Booster is great because its $1.99 per pouch and it treats 3-5 gallons of fuel VS the Klotz thats 160z and $11.99 per bottle. I've always herd in order to maximize and protect your motor you should try to match your octane to the engines compression ratio. I use the Octane Index and the Anti Knock Index "A.K.I." and R+M/2. Running low octane fuel in a high compression engine will cause the gas to ignite under compression prior to the spark plug igniting (pre-detonation) the result of that is added wear to your enginine internals.

 

You should be fine with the Pro-Circuit Pipes there a good mid/low end pipe. From what I've read they should be close to the Paul Turners. For your engine set up I personally think you would get more power and driveability out of Chariot Billet Reed Cages, but V-3 are great Reeds/Cages Too. What Kind of 28mm Carburetors are you running? I see that you have also discovered that a low geared set up with low end mods especially pipes really restricts power. I run a 15/42 set up and 20" tires and I thought I was high geared for stock cylinders! With 22" Rear Tires, 15 tooth front sprocket and 40 tooth rear Sprocket you might hit 103mph if you have the power to turn the gearing and tires. With your mods you shouldn't be getting beat by a 450 Thumper in the river bottoms and wide open fields as high geared as you are you should be able to launch it about 3/4 throttle and be gone! If you are getting beat I'd say your gearing and the low octane fuel are play a big part.

[98bansheeMAN98]

WTF do you mean by cheap ebay suspension improvements? that fucking gay ass widen kit?

 

racing cdi and make around 10500rpms, CDI really doesn't help with revs, my stock CDI with FMF pipes revs to 10K, with shearer revs to over 11.5K.

 

you run 87 octane with +4 and 20cc domes? that is asking for it to blow, run 93 pump.

 

you have proof of this 103mph? true, if your banshee hits 10500rpm with your tires and gearing, it can top out at 103, but i dont see your banshee maxing out ever.

it was at a drag strip dumbass, yes i run 87 octane and have for 8 years with no problems. it wasnt the widening kit. i ride trails i dont want it wider? there was a set of fronts for 350$ and i bought a rear seperate for 200$. ill start running 93 now that it melted a piston from the crank seals being bad from sitting for a few years at my dads house. now that ive had it out and rode at some local play tracks, i ran it hard, and now im pretty sure its all good.

[TIM LUTZ]

See my sig. This is about as good as it gets as far as setting a Shee up for serious trail riding. I ride the gas lines around Ripley WV. Tight trails with lots of ruts and rock faced hills as well as flat out open gravel and dirt roads. Run as small a rear sprocket and as tall a rear tire as you can. This will get you on par with the 450's. As far as motor mods go, I'm probably making at least 68 HP with a super wide power band and it seems to be enough to spank any 450 I've run across.

[98bansheeMAN98]

just reading your post, we all know you are a retard. just give it up.

your engine setup changes, first you had a stock CC motor with 20cc domes and +6timing, then it went to a 426 cheetah kit, which trinity doesn't make (where you said you got your kit, http://www.trinityracing.com/yamaha-banshee4.html#cheetah). then it went back to the stock CC motor with your home brew porting and +4 timing.

 

then you say you dont want to make your quad wider because of trails, yet you want a trail quad to go 103mph, again these two dont make sense.

i have more than one banshee. where im located, theres banshees forsale everywhere. i have a old air strip where we dragrace and we trail ride all the time. my 1999 banshee was passed on to me from family and is for draging. my 1998 is one i just got and took parts off my 1995 and put on my 98 because my 95 has a bad crank and i dont want to replace it as long as i have one to ride. currently my 1999 banshee is forsale on craigslist. i dont drag race much anymore and figure i should sell to someone who needs a serious drag banshee. and i want to get money to build 1 totally woods banshee. im asking for help with mods to make it the best in the woods.

[AKheathen]

I can't believe your running 87 Octane Pump gas mixed 32:1 Klotz with a 20cc dome. Theres a sticker on the top of the tank that says run high octane un-leaded pre-mix only, and thats in stock form. I called Trinity before I bought my Stage IV Cool Head and they told me that 21cc Domes were the smallest Domes I could run on strictly 93 Octane. If I went to a 20cc dome or smaller I had to up the octane by adding octane booster, or mix 93 octane 50/50 with either Blue Aviation Fuel "100+ Octane, or Race fuel 110 Octane". Advancing your Timing 4° is going to factor in on this as well. I usually buy Klotz Octane Booster, or the little clear tear open ROCKET 2 STROKE OCTANE BOOST from Derby Cycle. The Rocket Octane Booster is great because its $1.99 per pouch and it treats 3-5 gallons of fuel VS the Klotz thats 160z and $11.99 per bottle. I've always herd in order to maximize and protect your motor you should try to match your octane to the engines compression ratio. I use the Octane Index and the Anti Knock Index "A.K.I." and R+M/2. Running low octane fuel in a high compression engine will cause the gas to ignite under compression prior to the spark plug igniting (pre-detonation) the result of that is added wear to your enginine internals.

 

You should be fine with the Pro-Circuit Pipes there a good mid/low end pipe. From what I've read they should be close to the Paul Turners. For your engine set up I personally think you would get more power and driveability out of Chariot Billet Reed Cages, but V-3 are great Reeds/Cages Too. What Kind of 28mm Carburetors are you running? I see that you have also discovered that a low geared set up with low end mods especially pipes really restricts power. I run a 15/42 set up and 20" tires and I thought I was high geared for stock cylinders! With 22" Rear Tires, 15 tooth front sprocket and 40 tooth rear Sprocket you might hit 103mph if you have the power to turn the gearing and tires. With your mods you shouldn't be getting beat by a 450 Thumper in the river bottoms and wide open fields as high geared as you are you should be able to launch it about 3/4 throttle and be gone! If you are getting beat I'd say your gearing and the low octane fuel are play a big part.

you, my friend, have been dooped...... first off, it is possible to run as small as 19cc deto free, though most will never get away with it...... i have safely ran 90oct. on 20cc domes, and .020" bore for long periods in the trails/woods. 2nd, octane booster is junk. you add it to 93 at max ratio, and the best stuff out there will only get you close to 94, but not quite, and just run hotter. now, you throw the timing advance in there, however, that all changes, and yes, you need to go higher than 90oct. with 20cc's. bore size will also effect it as well, of course. and last, "pre detonation" is not a real word.

 

as for the pro-circuits, that is a great choice in low-mid pipe, because it can still rev out with power nicely, and has just about the strongest mid-range in it's class. it just doesn't respond as well as pipes like the ptrmids, tr6's, etc, right off idle, since they like a little more flow than stock, by nature. really, you should have used the rebuild as an opportunity to stroke it to 4mill. the vf3's should be getting you plenty of crisp power everywhere, but the boysens can offer up some amount of finite control without dropping power. as for the rim size, i stick to 9's for many reasons. for you, you might like the fact that the tire will balloon more at higher speeds, and become an even taller tire. right now, i would go back to a stock length swinger. i could only imagine what a bear it is to navigate the trails with an extended...

[Thack82]

you, my friend, have been dooped...... first off, it is possible to run as small as 19cc deto free, though most will never get away with it...... i have safely ran 90oct. on 20cc domes, and .020" bore for long periods in the trails/woods. 2nd, octane booster is junk. you add it to 93 at max ratio, and the best stuff out there will only get you close to 94, but not quite, and just run hotter. now, you throw the timing advance in there, however, that all changes, and yes, you need to go higher than 90oct. with 20cc's. bore size will also effect it as well, of course. and last, "pre detonation" is not a real word.

 

as for the pro-circuits, that is a great choice in low-mid pipe, because it can still rev out with power nicely, and has just about the strongest mid-range in it's class. it just doesn't respond as well as pipes like the ptrmids, tr6's, etc, right off idle, since they like a little more flow than stock, by nature. really, you should have used the rebuild as an opportunity to stroke it to 4mill. the vf3's should be getting you plenty of crisp power everywhere, but the boysens can offer up some amount of finite control without dropping power. as for the rim size, i stick to 9's for many reasons. for you, you might like the fact that the tire will balloon more at higher speeds, and become an even taller tire. right now, i would go back to a stock length swinger. i could only imagine what a bear it is to navigate the trails with an extended...

 

I'm just giving him my opinion, and letting him know what works for me and my bike. I'm not trying to start a pissing match. My Banshee runs better with a little Octane booster. At my elevation 790ft above sea level Trinity recommends that no smaller than 21cc domes be used with straight pump gas 93 Octane. I figured they new what they were talking about given there experience and reputation. Some times that 10 point jump will make the difference between 93 and 94 octane running good and running great. My Banshee would probably run on a gas/oil mix of 75:1 but I wouldn't do that so why would I take the chance on the Octane?

 

When I referred pre-detonation I was talking about the flash point of the fuel in the combustion chamber. As far as I can see pre-detonation is a real word heres the definition from the AMS Oil Web Site.

 

 

Definition of Pre - Detonation (ABNORMAL COMBUSTION)

Pre-Detonation / Pre-Ignition; is basically Abnormal Combustion.

 

This is basically an uncontrolled explosion in the combustion chamber caused by any one or combination of more than one of the items listed above as restrictors of ignition timing.

 

In normal combustion the spark ignites the compressed fuel/air mixture and a smooth burn travels through the combustion chamber and building combustion chamber pressure as it goes. This flame travels through the chamber by the time the crankshaft has moved about 15 to 30 degrees after top dead center (ATDC).

 

In Abnormal combustion the air, something in the combustion chamber or even the whole chamber is too hot for the fuel or it is compressed too high which itself causes the temp to raise too high, causes the fuel to explode.

 

This explosion produces extremely high temperature in a localized spot and causes a pressure spike so high and quick that it is like a hammer strike.

 

This extremely high temp/pressure spike can cause extreme damage too. The weakest point in a chamber gives way first. This hammer like strike hits the top of the piston and attempts to go down between the piston and cylinder wall and hits the top ring. which slams down on the ring land below it, braking it down against the second ring. At the same time, the extreme localized heat starts to melt the aluminum piston.

 

On true hemispherical engines (spark plug in the center of the chamber) The extreme heat can first weaken the piston closer to the center and the pressure spike can knock a hole in the center of the piston.

 

In a more wedge shaped chamber (plug on the side of the chamber) the damage usually in done opposite the plug.

 

Abnormal combustion damage is easy to ID. The underside of the piston crown is blackened, the ring land just below the top ring on the opposite side from the plug is broken in a downward pattern and the land above the top ring will be melted and burned away opposite the plug. There is also damage to the top rod bearing as the hammer effect usually beats out the rod bearing.

 

As far as the handling characteristics are concerned, my Banshee handles fine in the woods maybe I will run into you some day and you will get to witness it. I am running 20X11-9 Tires on my Banshee, and the Chariot Billet Reed Cages make more power that V-3's with a set up like mine. I realize I made a mistake when I went back with a stock style Crank VS the 4mil Crank, but stock crank set up are still capable of putting down good power. I'm not trying to start a war here so please don't take anything I've said in this post the wrong way.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Thack82

[AKheathen]

well, i just lost a lot of respect for amsoil as a whole...... not trying to start a pissing match, but plain and simply put, pre-detonation is just not a real word, it is a made-up conjunction of pre-ignition, and detonation. while, deto can, and usually does lead to pre-ignition, if allowed, they are 2 different effects. there has been countless long drawn out threads and posts on this forum, and others, that lay it all out in high detailed description and differentiation, but trust me, that is just how it is. pre-ignition: any time the air/fuel mixture ignites prior to it's designated time. primarily caused by excessive heat, high compression, or the combination of both, possibly as a result of detonation...

detonation: any uncontrolled ignition/burn. usually present as an erratic burn pattern abnormal of the healthy flame front, but becomes detectable when it is pronounced enough to penetrate the gas barrier that surrounds all surfaces of the combustion chamber. once that point is reached, it can escalate, and even invite pre-ignition from the hot spots. also, pre-ignition occurring other than the normal ignition point can lead to immediate detonation from the unbalanced double ignition flame fronts.....

that's just the short of it......

... as for trinity, well, lets just say not to put too much faith in their intimate knowledge.... they basically just make the stuff. noss has a real conservative chart, and bore size should always be taken into concideration, as the ratio will be different from stock to 65.5mm. also, running higher octane than required by too much will rob power as well, for instance- stock bore/port 21cc domes, +4timing, 1000'asl, should be plenty fine well in the safe side with 93 octane. now, you go and mix it up to 50/50, you loose a few ponies, and drivability running 97.5, or 101.5oct (whichever you are mixing).... i can tell you for sure that a stock port/.020" bore/20cc +5.5timing etc, absolutely does not like strait 100LL avgas. lost all kinds of snap and torque before dropping back down under 95...

[Thack82]

well, i just lost a lot of respect for amsoil as a whole...... not trying to start a pissing match, but plain and simply put, pre-detonation is just not a real word, it is a made-up conjunction of pre-ignition, and detonation. while, deto can, and usually does lead to pre-ignition, if allowed, they are 2 different effects. there has been countless long drawn out threads and posts on this forum, and others, that lay it all out in high detailed description and differentiation, but trust me, that is just how it is. pre-ignition: any time the air/fuel mixture ignites prior to it's designated time. primarily caused by excessive heat, high compression, or the combination of both, possibly as a result of detonation...

detonation: any uncontrolled ignition/burn. usually present as an erratic burn pattern abnormal of the healthy flame front, but becomes detectable when it is pronounced enough to penetrate the gas barrier that surrounds all surfaces of the combustion chamber. once that point is reached, it can escalate, and even invite pre-ignition from the hot spots. also, pre-ignition occurring other than the normal ignition point can lead to immediate detonation from the unbalanced double ignition flame fronts.....

that's just the short of it......

... as for trinity, well, lets just say not to put too much faith in their intimate knowledge.... they basically just make the stuff. noss has a real conservative chart, and bore size should always be taken into concideration, as the ratio will be different from stock to 65.5mm. also, running higher octane than required by too much will rob power as well, for instance- stock bore/port 21cc domes, +4timing, 1000'asl, should be plenty fine well in the safe side with 93 octane. now, you go and mix it up to 50/50, you loose a few ponies, and drivability running 97.5, or 101.5oct (whichever you are mixing).... i can tell you for sure that a stock port/.020" bore/20cc +5.5timing etc, absolutely does not like strait 100LL avgas. lost all kinds of snap and torque before dropping back down under 95...

 

 

Theres no doubt you know what your talking about, and you know more about the Banshee than I do. I'm sorry if my post came off like I was being a ass and knocking the advice that you were giving this guy. I'm a little defensive and I keep my guard up on here because some of the members of HQ have rail roaded me over my set up and things I've said that they have taken out of context and blown out of proportion. Your explanation of pre-detonation is dead on and in very good detail. I would say Definition but really your right its actually more of a condition than a word.

 

I tried running straight 93 Octane one time after I built the motor and lowered the compression and I thought it felt like the throttle response was a little sluggish, but after talking to you I'm beginning to think I could have just had a little water in the gas and the fuel dryer thats in the Octane Additive might have been fixing what I thought was a low Octane problem. The next tank I run I'm not going to add any Octane Booster to it and try it again. I know what your talking about, back about 10 years ago when I was in high school me and three or four other guys had a Yamaha Blasters. We were all about the same weight, equal riders/drivers and we all had similar mods Pipes, Air Filter, Jet Kit. The other two guys might have had a few other mods FMF Reeds, and one of the blasters was punched .020. Anyway we all went to Little Sandy Drag way one Friday night for test and tune I had plain old 87 Pump gas and the Autolube feeding my bike Quick Silver TCW3 Out Board Oil (Thats all we ran back then because it was cheap and you could get a gallon of it at Wal-Mart for $18.00) The other two Blasters had the Autolube system deleted and had 50-1 mixed 110 Race Fuel and AMS oil. My Blaster ran the best time out of all of them I ran a 6.60-6.70 seconds in 300ft of sand pretty consistent. The next closest guy my buddy Chad ran mid and low 7's. The next time we hit the trails they told me that my bike would even run better with 110 Octane fuel so I put 3/4 of a tank of 110 in it and it ran like shit, after that I tried 93 Octane and that Blaster just didn't like it. It would run its best on Plane old 87 Octane with cheap ass quick Silver Oil mixed 32/1 or what ever that Autolube System mixed it at.

 

I didn't do shit to that Blaster but ride it, rag it, fill up the Auto Lube tank with the cheapest 2 stroke oil I could find and run the cheapest gas and I never did any maintenance to it other than add new brakes and tighten the chain. I don't think I ever even changed the case oil the three years I owned it. Now I've got my Dream Bike the Banshee and I handle it with kid gloves. I only run Synthetic Lubricants (Crank Case Oil, 2 Stroke Oil, D.O.T. 4 Brake Fluid, Grease) Everything. I run a 32:1 mix of Klotz Super Techno-Plate with a 100:1 mix of Marval's Mystery Oil, and a $10 bottle of Octane Booster with every 5 gallons of 93 Octane Pump Gas. I just added it up and it cost me......... about $42 to mix 5 gallons of 2 stroke mix...Thats Crazy and I have to mess with it and tune on it quite a bit. I'm defiantly going to try a tank without booster. I've got a 30% Bigger Aluminum Radiator, CV-4 High Pressure Radiator Cap, Twin In-line Coolers, Billet Water Pump and Housing, Trinity Stage IV Cool Head, and I run ATV Super Coolant and Water Wetter and my bike still gets warmer than I would like and I'm starting to think it might be do the the booster I'm running. My Brother has a Perfect 1989 TRX-250R Built almost dead on my Banshee (Crank, Piston, Cool Head/20cc Dome, NGK Iridium Spark Plug) and he has the stock Honda cooling system other than the Cool Head and I don't feel the heat rolling off his motor like I do mine? I'll get it a try and I'll let you know how it turns out.

[guns4children]

dude ask what he should do and you guys tell him -2 swinger and he puts a +4

[MikeNick]

dude ask what he should do and you guys tell him -2 swinger and he puts a +4

 

 

lmao