bansh_88 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) About three years ago I had sent my 88 stock Banshee motor away to a very popular engine builder (whom is mentioned on here often) to have the cylinders bored .020 over, new pistons installed, mild porting job performed, and a few other usual and typical motor work done along with this all. A little while after it was done I knew it would have to sit for awhile (had other expenses that came first) so I poured some oil into the cyllinders and crankcase and it sat that way until now with a total of about 3 years sitting untouched with zero miles on it. It was never even started up as the motor has been covered up and set on my garage floor the entire time. SO today I go out to my garage with the kick-starter in hand to try and rotate the engine but there is no budge. I removed the tape and rags from my valves on the rear of the jugs and see right into the cylinder at the shiny new pistons which will not move with the kick-starter. The strange thing though, is that even though the kick-starter will not move the pistons at all (except for a very slight movement on both pistons), the kick-starter can be bumped in a constant manner in which it eventually can be worked downward fully, but strangely enough, the pistons remain clearly in the same exact position. So I keep working the kick-starter in this manner downward and it will eventually work its way down, but again, the pistons do not move with it. The trans is in neutral and I do not see what is going on here. Being that this is very odd to me, I cannot explain what is going on. Is this a frozen piston, or is my kickstater or gears failed here? While my kick-starter does not go down as smoothly as normal, and the pistons remain in place, I can manage to get the kickstarter to the full downward position by hand by rocking it back and forth. Please accept my apologies in advance if my question here seems confusing, but I have no clue of what the issue may be, or how to explain it any better. Does anyone know what I am looking at here and what I need to investigate or check into further in attempt to solve this issue? THANKS!!!!!!!!! Edited March 7, 2011 by bansh_88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okbeast Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Pull the clutch cover off and make sure the kicker gear is installed correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansh_88 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Pull the clutch cover off and make sure the kicker gear is installed correctly. Thanks so much for your reply okbeast!! I will remove the clutch cover to look for this. THANKS!!!!! Edited March 7, 2011 by bansh_88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansh_88 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) If anyone else has any other suggestions of what I should investigate or try, I would be very happy to hear of it. Thanks!! Edited March 7, 2011 by bansh_88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2otoofast4u Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 If you push the kicer down by hand till it becomes tight, release it just a touch and press down again, yes it will go clear to the bottom.. Thats is normal.. Once you take the kicker out and see how the mechanisim works you will see how it retracts and then grabs again.. If you never started the motor, and simply poured oil down the cylds and into the cases, and then did the worst thing of all and set it on a concrete floor, Im gonna guess that it is rusted solid.. Im not 100% sure where you live, but in most climates more often than not that oiling is not going to be an accebtable way of preventing to corosion.. It VERY unlikely that the oil that you dumped in it reached anything more than a small percentage off where it needed to go, and with the condensation and evaporation of moisture in the motor it has more than likely washed away nearly anything that made it to where you wanted it to go.. Did you EVER roll the motor through before you stored it? I would start with the easy things and work from there.. However Id bet that by the time your done, you may have to buy a part or three to get it back up to spec.. Let us know what you find... Could be a good lesson to be learned by many!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansh_88 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Thanks a lot for your replyn2otoofast4u. I never did rotate the engine at all as I stored the kickstarter away when i had disassembled the motor and being that I just found the kickstarter today, I figured that I would try to rotate the engine now since finding it. But all this time it was set on the garage floor and a couple times I poured Marvel Mystery oil in the spark plug holes and in the crankcase. I think I also poured some regular 10-40w oil in the crancase as well. I honestly didnt plan for it to be sitting for this long, and I have just been busy with other things causing me to forget about this motor which has $1500 of fresh professional motor work done to it by a well known and popular engine builder. And now it may be all ruined because of it sitting all this time... I am so disappointed by this right now that I feel sick... really sick... Edited March 7, 2011 by bansh_88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyzstang Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Thanks a lot for your replyn2otoofast4u. I never did rotate the engine at all as I stored the kickstarter away when i had disassembled the motor and being that I just found the kickstarter today, I figured that I would try to rotate the engine now since finding it. But all this time it was set on the garage floor and a couple times I poured Marvel Mystery oil in the spark plug holes and in the crankcase. I think I also poured some regular 10-40w oil in the crancase as well. I honestly didnt plan for it to be sitting for this long, and I have just been busy with other things causing me to forget about this motor which has $1500 of fresh professional motor work done to it by a well known and popular engine builder. And now it may be all ruined because of it sitting all this time... I am so disappointed by this right now that I feel sick... really sick... Damn that sucks Just to be sure your locked up try taking off the flywheel cover and put a socket wrench on the flywheel bolt and turn over the crank that way. Pull the plugs first to decrease compression. Should spin very freely unless your locked up. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansh_88 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Damn that sucks Just to be sure your locked up try taking off the flywheel cover and put a socket wrench on the flywheel bolt and turn over the crank that way. Pull the plugs first to decrease compression. Should spin very freely unless your locked up. Good luck Thanks for the reply troyzstang. I will give that a try. But I will definitely not have to pull the spark plugs out being that I never even installed any after getting the motor back. I just kept the motor taped up and filled with rags just exactly as it was sent back to me from the engine builder. I didnt even have the chance to put spark plugs in it once I got it back from the builder. Just had so many other things going on at the time and couldnt even start it up or do anything with it at all despite having all this performance port work done to it and a complete brand new top-end with .020 overbore. One of lifes many curve-balls I guess... Sigh. Edited March 7, 2011 by bansh_88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry's Shee Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 If it were me I would pull the head and see if there is rust in the cyls. You might be able to save the pistons from having rust ground into them IF you look before you actually turn it over. At least peek into ex ports , one or the other pistons should be down far enough to see into cyls. I would worry about this before I cranked it over. You can mention the builders name, he did nothing wrong !! Might be time to get a Clymers manual. JMHO, your results may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotta_goatsfast Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 How much oil did you dump into the crankcase? There isn't a lot of room in there, maybe its just hydro-locked from trying to compress the oil on the down stroke before the transfers can open? Anyway, its a good idea to disassemble the engine and look it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcrano Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 How much oil did you dump into the crankcase? There isn't a lot of room in there, maybe its just hydro-locked from trying to compress the oil on the down stroke before the transfers can open? Anyway, its a good idea to disassemble the engine and look it over. x2 with everything said here.if u never tried to rotate it after the build,maybe u just dont have something together right on clutch side.i really dont like the way u put mystery oil in there and 10-40,if nu soaked the walls with 2 stroke when u built it,even after 3 years i would like to think the oil still kept rust out.pull the clutch side,see whats up.do u have like a blunt long brass punch or similar object to fit into the spark plug hole and try to push down on the piston to try to get movement.or pull stator side and turn the flywheel by hand and see if something is binding on the clutch side.if not,ur gonna have to definately break the pistons loose from the cyl and pull the jugs.if it rusted in there,u might luck out and be able to run a spring hone to clean the jugs and scuff the rings or replace.i cant see the crank being rusted,but u never know.one way to find out...good luck.hard to believe u didnt want to turn it over when u built it.i always do,it gives me woody lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansh_88 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Thanks a lot everyone for the excellent advice, I greatly appreciate it. I should have time to try all of these suggestions this coming weekend. Again, thanks a lot everyone for your help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansh_88 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) OK!!!! Possibly some good news I hope... I just now checked on the motor to see if it would be my lucky day and see if the motor would rotate due to having had it soaking a few days with aircraft-grade anti-corrosive and lubrication spray inside of it, BUT... nothing. SO, being that the left side cover was already removed from my transmission area, I grabbed the round thing (stator???) and turned it by hand and and the pistons immediately moved freely and smoothly like perfect!!! Totally smooth as can be with NO sticking or roughness whatsoever!!! :) So I then tried the kickstarter by hand and it did finally move the pistons but then it came to a stop again like it was before. So I grabbed the round thing on the left side of the tranny (stator??) and rotated it clock-wise and it came to a stop. I then grabbed the kickstarter by hand and pushed downwards and the pistons moved again a full revolution and then it came to a stop. So I again rotated the round thing on the left side of the trany (stator??) clockwise again until it stopped and I was again able to use the kickstarter to spin the pistons again. The problem is that they spin what I assume to be a full revolution, but then in order to continue these spin cycles, I have spin that round thing on the left of the tranny again clockwise which acts like a reset to allow the kickstarter to rotate the pistons again. SO I have to keep working both the stator (???) and the kickstarter to get the pistons to spin. So can anyone please explain what may be going on here? Do I need to adjust something here? I am clueless as to what to do from here but I know now that my pistons are moving freely and smoothly but its just that I have to work both the kickstarter and the round thing on the left side of my tranny together but separately to get the pistons rotating. I will be forever grateful if anyone can explain what is going on here and what I will need to adjust or fix to get this engine rotating correctly with just using the kickstarter like normal. THANKS!!!!!!!!! :notworthy: :notworthy: Edited March 10, 2011 by bansh_88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trx4502shee Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 OK!!!! Possibly some good news I hope... I just now checked on the motor to see if it would be my lucky day and see if the motor would rotate due to having had it soaking a few days with aircraft-grade anti-corrosive and lubrication spray inside of it, BUT... nothing. SO, being that the left side cover was already removed from my transmission area, I grabbed the round thing (stator???) and turned it by hand and and the pistons immediately moved freely and smoothly like perfect!!! Totally smooth as can be with NO sticking or roughness whatsoever!!! :) So I then tried the kickstarter by hand and it did finally move the pistons but then it came to a stop again like it was before. So I grabbed the round thing on the left side of the tranny (stator??) and rotated it clock-wise and it came to a stop. I then grabbed the kickstarter by hand and pushed downwards and the pistons moved again a full revolution and then it came to a stop. So I again rotated the round thing on the left side of the trany (stator??) clockwise again until it stopped and I was again able to use the kickstarter to spin the pistons again. The problem is that they spin what I assume to be a full revolution, but then in order to continue these spin cycles, I have spin that round thing on the left of the tranny again clockwise which acts like a reset to allow the kickstarter to rotate the pistons again. SO I have to keep working both the stator (???) and the kickstarter to get the pistons to spin. So can anyone please explain what may be going on here? Do I need to adjust something here? I am clueless as to what to do from here but I know now that my pistons are moving freely and smoothly but its just that I have to work both the kickstarter and the round thing on the left side of my tranny together but separately to get the pistons rotating. I will be forever grateful if anyone can explain what is going on here and what I will need to adjust or fix to get this engine rotating correctly with just using the kickstarter like normal. THANKS!!!!!!!!! :notworthy: :notworthy: It sounds like you have a ring of rust in the cylinders from the pistons sitting in one spot for so long with the spark plug holes open for moister to get in which is keeping it from making a full revolution that is why you can spin it clock wise with the stator and when you use the kickstart it moving counter clockwise take the head and cylinders off and get the cylinders honed you should be good to go after that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstaton1983 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) if you can turn the fly wheel (the round thing)past a full revolution,then the problem is in your trans. kick start area.it sounds like your kick start gear is staying engaged.there should be a spring to pull the gear back when you take tension off the kick starter.i bought a banshee that had that spring popped out of place and it caused similar problems. pull the clutch cover off and rotate the motor over and see if anything looks out of whack. oh and if the crank doesnt turn past a full revolution then trx guy is correct about the rust in the cylinders. Edited March 11, 2011 by sstaton1983 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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