EFI

[Paulie B]

Very impressive. Subscribing!

[Withidlehands]

Thing is sweet! must be awesome not having to rejet all the time.

[wfobasheeboy]

Evan

How are things going these days. Have you been out riding the shee? How is the rest of the tuning going for you?

Time for update for our EFI fix.

WFO

[THE358BANSH]

Evan

How are things going these days. Have you been out riding the shee? How is the rest of the tuning going for you?

Time for update for our EFI fix.

WFO

 

Things are going well, just too busy with the shop and racing every weekend so the quad hasn't ha a ton of attention during the summer. None of that is any different than any other year though, like I expected it to change? I have had it on a few little day trips here and there. Everything is going okay, just one main issue right now. I have had a a random low end bog, but it was really intermittent. After doing some investigating, it is related to either fuel pressure, or lack of delivery causing a low pressure dip. If you remember, I blocked off one side of my pingle, and ran the other side to the fuel pump inlet. I am not one hundred percent yet, but gut feeling is that the pingle is a restriction on the inlet of the pump depending on fuel flow requirements. Fortunately, racing is starting to wind down around here so I will be able to devote some time to her in the next week or so to get this sorted out. Lates, Evan

[camatv]

evan just a thought is the cap gutted and drilled? OR if its a billet cap might try and drill out the top and dont run one of those one way valves..

[RavenShield]

Coolest banshee i've seen on here!! Keep up the good work!!

[THE358BANSH]

evan just a thought is the cap gutted and drilled? OR if its a billet cap might try and drill out the top and dont run one of those one way valves..

 

I didn't have the cap gutted, so that was the first thing done and it didn't change anything. After that, I addressed the pingle by testing its gravity flow in comparison to the free flow of the fuel pump. Both of which tested good, but I decided to change the pingle to a different setup anyways and it didn't do squat. So here it was midnight, and I decided to go for one more romp before packing up to go riding the next morning. Pushed it out of the shop, strapped on the helmet, and then tried to start it. It wouldn't fire, felt just like the tether was out. Pushed it back in and checked some stuff out to find that the fuel pump wasn't turning on.

 

I could feel the fuel pump relay clicking on and off as it should so I went to the pump connection and tested for voltage there and it was fine. I manually put power to the pump while it was still mounted, and it didn't run. Pulled the pump out and disassembled the pump housing to get at the pump. I checked it again while putting power to it and now the damn thing turns on. The best I can figure is the armature has a bad spot on it and the pump would randomly turn off and on, and therefore causing the drop in pressure.

 

I didn't want to put a bum pump back in to go riding in a few hours so I rigged a Walbro 255lph pump I had laying around. It pulls way too much current and flows way to much fuel, but it let me go riding. The trails went awesome, we got lots of time on the seat. Spent a few hours in the play area and then headed out to the trails. All in all we put on we put on close to 50 miles, and I only ran out of gas once because of my own dumbass fault. All in all, an good success I thought.

 

I have a few things to do before the next ride. My clutch was feeling really jerky on the release, so I checked the oil to find out my impeller that had a small groove on the shaft that must be a big one now because of the milky oil. Second on the list is a replacement fuel pump that flows less and draws less current. I have found a pump that was used on the injected Cannondales and Victory motorcycles. It flows slightly more fuel than I need, but like the LTR pump i had it only draws 3 amps which is awesome. Evan

[clintonior]

any news? this is how Yamaha should be making them Now!! lol

[THE358BANSH]

any news? this is how Yamaha should be making them Now!! lol

 

I did receive the new fuel pump and had a chance to install it. The pump is a Walbro GSL414 off of the fuel injected Cannondale quads. It flows a decent bit more than I will ever need, but the current draw is minimal in comparison to most any other pumps. I was able to use the original right side mount for the left side of the new pump, and then swap the left side over to the right.

 

Other than that a ton of things haven't changed, I have just been riding the wheels off this thing in the fields around the shop. I have had a few issues to say the least, with the biggest being the overheating problem and a small sprocket issue. I mentioned in my post about the gear issue that I had recently installed an TrailTech temperature gauge. I sunk the gauge into my bar pad and the sensor housing goes inline in the upper radiator hose. It flashes between the current temp and max temp, and every time it goes over 130 degrees the max temp is reset. It was absolutely the best forty dollars spent to date!

 

I have also been gathering parts to get back on my frame reconstruction project, which I started a while ago but ended running out of time on. I came across an awesome deal on a PEP zero preload shock . It's 18.625" long with 5.25" of stroke, and meant for use with a Honda CR500 style linkage. It is going to need to be re-valved and a will need another spring, but I think I have one around the shop that will work. I also picked up a '92 CR500 linkage off ebay for $35 shipped, and I am in the process of getting a rebuild kit for the bearings/pins. The CR500 style linkage provides an awesome progressive motion ratio, which is leaps and bounds above the stock style rear shock/linkage combo.

 

I have a bunch of ideas on how I would like to redo stuff on the new frame. Mostly everything pertains to packaging, and trying to get everything done more efficiently in the same space. Combine that with a narrow 250r style front end and the CR500 rear, and I think it should be a super responsive quad that is fun to ride. When the time comes to get back on the frame, I figure there will be a build thread of some sorts detailing the fab work and changes to the packaging. Evan

 

 

 

[THE358BANSH]

 

Pretty cool little video, but no sound unfortunately.

[THE358BANSH]

Wow, it's hard to believe it's been a year since I started this project. I never would have imagined that it would have caused the buzz it did, both good and bad sometimes. Going into the project I was extremely prepared and had an in depth background with four stroke EFI. After huge amounts of trials and tribulations I am still happy with my decision to convert the fuel and ignition system. No doubt though, it has been a ton of work and I have had to invest hundreds of hours to make it a success. I have learned so much that will be valuable to me elsewhere so I consider this a fun project no matter what the outcome is. The good thing is I am a stubborn bastard and will not give up on a project I start.

 

Now that we finally have had some cold weather lately I am getting into developing a cold weather tune along with my new R2's. I have never really talked about the tuning of the system, mainly the component selection and troubleshooting issues that cropped up. After tuning the engine this summer with the PT Mids on it and in Speed Density, I decided to swap over into AlphaN style tuning. There are some small differences between the two, but the largest is instead of fueling being controlled by RPM and manifold vacuum it is now controlled by RPM and throttle position.

 

I posted a few screen shots below to keep the information plentiful. The first is a datalog of a part throttle run at 40%. The red line is engine RPM, white is coolant temperature, green is spark advance, yellow is throttle position, blue is air/fuel ratio, and the lower white line is injector duty cycle. I use the throttle limiter screw on the thumb throttle to target an area that I believe needs work. I run the engine just as you would on a dyno and from as low of a RPM as possible. I run all of my pulls in fifth gear and from 2500 to 10500 or so.

 

The next two shots are 3D representations of the VE map and the spark advance. Engine RPM is gaining from left to right, and throttle position goes from 0-100% towards the back on both maps. The spark curve is fairly simple, I took the factory curve as a baseline and added advance across the board just like a timing plate would do. Since then I have modified it a bit, but staying close to values that have worked well for me in the past.

 

The wideband has worked fairly well, with some quirks here and there. I recently had my first part failure which was the controller for the oxygen sensor. I sent the unit back to Innovate Motorsports since it was still under warranty and they checked it out. I just got an email here today saying a new controller is on its way back to me fully covered. I had some thoughts as to how the sensor would function at low RPMs, mostly thinking it would have problems with reversion. The sensor is extremely accurate from about 5000rpm and up, and I use it in conjunction with the plugs to get a tune. Below 5000rpm or so, the sensor reads lean and most of the tuning is done just like a set of carbs with throttle response and feel being the biggest contributions. The system is currently run in open loop which means the ECU looks at the air/fuel ration but does not do any correcting by it, another way of looking at it is the engine is running strictly off the programed values in the VE map.

 

The biggest change that I noticed from my carbs and stock ignition system is how smooth the engine is. It starts with one kick and will almost instantly settle into a rock solid 1800rpm idle. Then engine doesn't have the normal Banshee ring to it while not on the pipe. The old setup would run okay when not on the pipe, but with the new trigger wheel being so accurate and having that much more control of fueling and ignition in those areas it purrs like a four stroke kitten all day long down low. I have not specifically worked on throttle response, but it is all ready as good if not better than my Lectrons.

 

If I can find the GoPro and some batteries, I will post a video this weekend of her getting beat. As long as nothing breaks, a friend and myself were going to run down and ride Lake Winnebago with Nieskes and ChevyBanshee91 on Saturday or Sunday. Wish us luck! Evan

 

[sheerider11]

That was an awesome read. Nice work, bike was super clean. It kind of sucks to hear that there isn't really an increase in power. Does it respond like a FI bike? I went from an 02 R6 to a 06 zx6r and that was a huge difference.

[wfobasheeboy]

HI Evan

Good to hear you are still running the beast. Well it still looks like you are working through some small problem that come with custom set up. But still having fun doing it. I hope to see the GOPRO clips for the weekend run.

 

WFO

[THE358BANSH]

That was an awesome read. Nice work, bike was super clean. It kind of sucks to hear that there isn't really an increase in power. Does it respond like a FI bike? I went from an 02 R6 to a 06 zx6r and that was a huge difference.

 

Thanks! I never went into this deal for a gain in power. If the mixture is correct with the carb, and the EFI is at the same mixture the engine will make the same power within a percent or so. The biggest factor with the injection is that I can control that mixture at 144 different points in reference to RPM and throttle position. If you look at any two stroke dyno graph, the AFR is a compromise at best. The AFR in the picture below starts lean as all two strokes do before getting on the pipe, and then in hunts above and below 13:1 until the over-rev where it goes lean. Now notice the correlation between the AFR and hp/tq. When the engine dips rich power goes flat and then when the engine surges leaner it starts gaining power. I can make the AFR curve flat as a board, and as a result the engine will make more power under the curve, and make that power more smoothly which translates into an easier riding wheeler with better responsiveness.

 

 

HI Evan

Good to hear you are still running the beast. Well it still looks like you are working through some small problem that come with custom set up. But still having fun doing it. I hope to see the GOPRO clips for the weekend run.

 

WFO

 

Yep, there will always be some tinkering needed to finesse everything. I knew this coming into the project and it hasn't been too bad so far, but then again I tolerate a lot more than most people.

 

oh your wideband, you haven't had any issues with it burning up or getting coated with oil?

 

The only issue so far was the controller itself having a malfunction like I said above. I run a medium length bung with a HBX-1 from Innovate to keep the sensor tip clean and slightly remote from the oil. I have run approximately 75-80 gallons of fuel through it and it seems to function fine. I do not completely rely on the wideband for tuning, more than anything it is a backup to what my butt is feeling and my ears are hearing. From what I have gathered through other people, most say to plan on the sensor lasting 15 hours or so. I only have the sensor in the exhaust for tuning and if I plan on going for a ride I will pull it out and toss a plug in the bung.

[dirtydownunder]

ever have the same setup dyno'd ? so carb vs efi ? just too see ?