Override, and Lockout?

[midlifecrisis]

Alright, so in a nut shell, what are the purposes of these two items? I see them on here alot, and I dont think Ive ever seen one in person operational?

[SkinInd_Banshee]

Alright, so in a nut shell, what are the purposes of these two items? I see them on here alot, and I dont think Ive ever seen one in person operational?

 

A lockout It is to put more power to the ground, as it spins the pieces flex outwards putting more pressure, along with spring pressure, on the clutch plates. A ovveride trans can be set up many different ways and utilizes clutchless shifting while under transmission load. FYI you can use heavy duty clutch springs and easy pull clutch lever instead of a lockout clutch. Merry x mas

Edited December 12, 2010 by SkinInd_Banshee

[dave5.0]

I'm sure you'll get several opinions on this. At around 75-80hp these turds become hard or impossible to shift under a load. Like when you're drag racing. The override makes it so you can shift under a load and without the clutch. A nice one soumds like it's belt drive goin down the track. Can't even hardly hear the shifts. The lockup, or lockout as some people call them(not sure why), locks the clutch and keeps it from slipping under high hp applications. The two pieces kinda work good together. Once you get a decent hp motor that's hard to shift anyway, then lockup the clutch at high rpm. You're kinds screwed. So put an override in and you get to shift wide open with the clutch locked up. Makes u faster too. Lockups are centrifugal too. Faster it spins, harder it presses on the clutches.

[AKheathen]

also, the lockup spins with the trans, not the engine, so it never works when you launch....even stops spinning when you pull the clutch. this works good, though, since you can set the initial slip 2with spring pressure and get more traction. in the trails, and technical hill-climbs, you can also use this, and the weight settings, to slip the clutch and not jar it so bad, which can break traction, or grab and pop the front up...both of which are bad on a climb

[midlifecrisis]

Alright, so under normal trail riding, and some track as well, its kinda useless? Mine doesnt have crazy horsepower like that (not sure on how much), nor do I have an issue keeping the front end down, as Im 230lbs.

[jbooker82]

Lockup Clutch

[midlifecrisis]

So it actually takes the place of the clutch plates?

[dave5.0]

Clutch plates are still in there, just takes place of the outer pressure plate.

[AKheathen]

Clutch plates are still in there, just takes place of the outer pressure plate.

correction- it bolts to the pressure plate, except an undercover slingshot, which does replace the pressure plate. you can still see the stock pp in the pics, i even enameled mine to stand out...

[gotta_goatsfast]

WARNING: Threadjacking for the good of the cause

 

What is the power consumption of a direct drive lock out vs. a slingshot style? I'm looking at the picture (which looks badass) and I see that the fingers are going to be slapping the trans fluid quite a bit. I suppose flinging oil around will help throw oil up and lube the drive gears and such, but how much draw on the engine will that be if you're pegged at 9000rpm (which the lock out would be spinning at a hair over 3000rpm?) Maybe once it spins fast enough the fluid doesn't have enough time to flow back between the clutch fingers. Anyway, I'm looking into a lock out and any input is appreciated.

 

Also, what is the weight difference between the two styles?

 

To Midlife, the fingers (6 black pieces with allen bolt/nut through them) pivot on the base (the shiny star piece mounted to the clutch assembly). As the unit spins faster, the fingers with the bolts want to move outward from the center. On the other side of the pivot, the fingers will press against the clutch. As it spins faster, more centrifugal force is created on the fingers which in turn presses harder on the clutch disks.

 

A slingshot uses centrifugal force, too. It places weighted balls in a machined track that "ramps". As the clutch spins faster, the balls are forced outward in there track, wedging between a fixed piece and a piece against the clutch. Since the fixed piece will not move, the result is pressure against the clutch disks.

 

As you can see, both units can be "tuned" by increasing or decreasing the spinning weight.

 

There, now I don't feel so bad about jacking your thread. lol

[RagunCajun]

Only reason i used the vito's stealth slingshot style lockout is price. It was cheaper than the direct drive and cover.

 

Overrides let you shift under load. While you are on the throttle you can upshift without letting off the throttle and/or using the clutch. It's quicker in a drag race and you NEVER miss a shift. Depending on the type, you MUST hold in the clutch above a certain rpm to avoid back loading the trans. Another word for backload is engine braking. The ones that can be back loaded below a certain RPM are called dunable overrides. Others require the bike to be stopped before even thinking about down shifting. If you fail to do it, you can damage the shift forks.

 

Go to 5:30 in my vid and you can listen to the engine. It shifts instantly. Doesnt rev like a power shift would. Just bangs gears kinda like a built automatic in a car/truck. And of course from a video, you have no idea i have a lockout. But that's common sense.

 

Some think overrides are just for drag only. I disagree. It's my favorite mod on my bike to date. And my bike is just a playbike. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Edited December 12, 2010 by RagunCajun

[midlifecrisis]

Only reason i used the vito's stealth slingshot style lockout is price. It was cheaper than the direct drive and cover.

 

Overrides let you shift under load. While you are on the throttle you can upshift without letting off the throttle and/or using the clutch. It's quicker in a drag race and you NEVER miss a shift. Depending on the type, you MUST hold in the clutch above a certain rpm to avoid back loading the trans. Another word for backload is engine braking. The ones that can be back loaded below a certain RPM are called dunable overrides. Others require the bike to be stopped before even thinking about down shifting. If you fail to do it, you can damage the shift forks.

 

Go to 5:30 in my vid and you can listen to the engine. It shifts instantly. Doesnt rev like a power shift would. Just bangs gears kinda like a built automatic in a car/truck. And of course from a video, you have no idea i have a lockout. But that's common sense.

 

Some think overrides are just for drag only. I disagree. It's my favorite mod on my bike to date. And my bike is just a playbike. Jack of all trades, master of none.

First of all gotta_gofast, you should remove and start a new post, so that your answers to your questions dont end up mixed up with mine. Im just kinda learning about these items, and youre obviously a lot more versed than me, so although I appreciate your input, your questions are going to fill my post with info that I have no idea about, JMO!

 

Thanks to everyone who has responded, I feel I am getting the idea here.

 

For a trail bike then, these ( depending on the type) are a waste of dollars, if you cant downshift without slowing or stopping? Or if you can buy a style which would be good for my application, what is the best type? I understand that these are not turning a clutched bike into an automatic, so I wonder if its even worth it to install one?

 

Rajun, your vid shows you going, but turning back around at the other end of the straight are you stopping and correcting your gearbox then? ie.... are you shifting it back to first gear at a stopped position?

 

Also, am I to believe that the slingshot style is always a stealth style (hidden) and a direct drive is usually shown off like on Bookers bike (which I agree looks stellar)?

 

What is the issue with the back loading then, is it creating high pressure or? What is the idea behind having to clutch above a RPM vs. having to clutch at a lower RPM, if the override is intended to help eliminate the clutch in the first place?

 

Sorry about all the questions, this could be a long one.

[gotta_goatsfast]

Midlife, there are some cheap alternatives to better shifting. For a trail bike, check out the simple mods such as a modified shift shaft from FAST, modded shift star, and a lighter shift detent spring. All can be done without removing the engine. Also, I shortened my shift lever which seemed to help with ergonomics for me.

 

Or... HJR, a site sponsor here, will cut the dogs on your trans to make for easier shifting with out turning it into a full override. This is the current option I'm weighing in on.

[jbooker82]

I dont think you would notice any hp difference between the two different styles of lockup's. When the engine is running and the cltuch is spinning the oil is all spooled up around the clutch pack.

[RagunCajun]

Rajun, your vid shows you going, but turning back around at the other end of the straight are you stopping and correcting your gearbox then? ie.... are you shifting it back to first gear at a stopped position?

I can down shift whenever i want(with the clutch pulled in of course). I have a dunable override. I just cant back load the trans when the RPMs are high. Only non-dunable overrides require the bike to be stopped completely BEFORE you can shift down. I actually shouldnt be blimping the throttle on my wheelie attempts. But oh well, it's fun and still shifts perfect like the day i installed it.

 

IMO the only reason to go to a non dunable is to keep 1-6th. Mostly asphalt guys use all 6 gears. Mine is a neutral down 1-5. IMO that's the best thing to get unless you need 6th.

 

I agree there are methods to shift better. Nothing is more fun than an override though. Let me stress, it is not for every one. And you dont miss something you never had.

 

To answer a few of your questions. The only reason to have an override is to be more consistent and quicker. You do not need this just drag racing or drag racing for fun with friends. The reason not to back load is it put wear and can damage the shift forks. The dunables are forgiving. The non dunables will eat them for breakfast. Take a look at your personal riding style and think if you NEED this. The answer will probably be no.

 

Now the question is, do you want it

Edited December 13, 2010 by RagunCajun