msd or dynatek ignition

[Koolguyson]

so, is this a definate occurence that happens to everyone, yet you are the first one i've seen talk about it? everyone else who has run one in drag must just be too ashamed to admit it, then.......... i don't know your experience, but it could be possible that you were running a high output coil, which they don't always like.....the circuitry is designed to increase the output of a stock coil. also, never being at all interested in racing, i have found the dyna fs programmable very much worth the price. but, i'm not simply doing a mild build, either. even though, i went ahead and put it on a somewhat mild build with just bolt-ons this spring, and it was a night and day difference to pick up some lost top-end, without having to sacrifice the low-mid punch from advancing. i'm sure i'll be more than happy with the custom curves i'm going to be putting in there.....

 

I am definitely making more horsepower than you, which may be why I notice it more as it strains the ignition like crazy. Most people probably don't talk about it because they don't do the testing that I do. That or they just can't feel it?

 

My completely stock ignition with stock curves and stock cdi/box/stator has ran high 3.40's. More over, not sure who "everyone who has run one in drag" are, but look at any builder, they don't run them either. Not trying to start an argument, but they just aren't worth it if you are looking for power. You can do just as well with a timing plate.

[Forcefed]

LOL - what a crock of shit - they are more builders & successful drag racers running the Dyna than you can shake a stick at - high RPM cut out ? what ? Is it better than an MSD ... unsure - but they are far from junk

[Snopczynski]

My motor doesn't pull 10k rpm, but I have dyno testing that proves my dyna made a noticeable difference on my bike. Like I said, I cant stand riding my bike or others people with a stock cdi curve in it after having one.I run a dyna coil too.

 

I think if you had high rpm cutout with a digital ignition, you had something else going on.

[Koolguyson]

LOL - what a crock of shit - they are more builders & successful drag racers running the Dyna than you can shake a stick at - high RPM cut out ? what ? Is it better than an MSD ... unsure - but they are far from junk

 

I haven't shaken a stick in quiet awhile, but sure...next time you see a K&T/Titan/A&S/Packard (or similar reputable builder) bike with a Dyna box on it, let me know.

 

I haven't ran an MSD, but I hear they are solid ignitions.

 

 

 

Snop, it wasn't anything else. I swapped the cdi on the dyno to try and fix our issue of the ignition breaking up and it solved the issue by making an addition 5hp and 550rpm. This happened to me years ago too on a much smaller build.

[Forcefed]

LOL - Ok - I'm letting you know - K&T has several Cougars with Dynatek's on them (I programmed I of them per Randy's specs) Dan has one on the turbo Scimitar - A couple of Tim's customers have run them on their DMX build ... & on & on ...

 

After with talking to a few of them it seems as though the MSD may have an edge on the Dyna in a couple of areas, but it all comes back to being FAR superior to a restrictive factory shaped advance curve or a pre-burnt PVL curve. K&T has the Digital PVL software as Tim has the MSD & Dyna Stuff & Dan prefers the disharge capability of the Dyna last I spoke with him (bout a month)

 

At any rate - it is imo - the same as placing an off the shelf dome on a custom build - every single engine combination wants its own specific timing advance angle to coincide with how the engine builds volumetric effiency. The ever popular "throw +8 on the plate" with a stock box way of thinking may get the job done in some aspects, but is far from being optimised. The Dyna, in particular, but not limited to, will rev clean past 11K & in a few applications I have had no problem in excess of 12K

 

Just some FYI

 

[Forcefed]

To the post starter - will you notice a diff - ehh, maybe a little here or there depending on many factors - it is worth it in your specific application - maybe, maybe not - hard to blanket what "worth" is to every individual - imo

[Koolguyson]

LOL - Ok - I'm letting you know - K&T has several Cougars with Dynatek's on them (I programmed I of them per Randy's specs) Dan has one on the turbo Scimitar - A couple of Tim's customers have run them on their DMX build ... & on & on ...

 

After with talking to a few of them it seems as though the MSD may have an edge on the Dyna in a couple of areas, but it all comes back to being FAR superior to a restrictive factory shaped advance curve or a pre-burnt PVL curve. K&T has the Digital PVL software as Tim has the MSD & Dyna Stuff & Dan prefers the disharge capability of the Dyna last I spoke with him (bout a month)

 

At any rate - it is imo - the same as placing an off the shelf dome on a custom build - every single engine combination wants its own specific timing advance angle to coincide with how the engine builds volumetric effiency. The ever popular "throw +8 on the plate" with a stock box way of thinking may get the job done in some aspects, but is far from being optimised. The Dyna, in particular, but not limited to, will rev clean past 11K & in a few applications I have had no problem in excess of 12K

 

Just some FYI

 

 

I knew you would say a turbo, which IMO is a completely different animal. Same with a nitrous bike. My stock curve seems to be doing alright. Like I said, we tried the dyna, it hurt us. I would love to try the programmable pvl one day.

 

Like I said, show me one of their personal bikes with a dyna. Dome is in two weeks. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for you.

 

Honest question, why would they have you program one? Because they don't have the cable because they don't run them? The software is free and available online.

[Snopczynski]

I knew you would say a turbo, which IMO is a completely different animal. Same with a nitrous bike. My stock curve seems to be doing alright. Like I said, we tried the dyna, it hurt us. I would love to try the programmable pvl one day.

 

Like I said, show me one of their personal bikes with a dyna. Dome is in two weeks. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for you.

 

Honest question, why would they have you program one? Because they don't have the cable because they don't run them? The software is free and available online.

 

Guys who work with the programs alot and run em on the dyno as well have pre-made curves they can program into cdi's for people as a baseline. Then you just have to tweak it to fine tune the curve.

[dirtydownunder]

i just couldnt be bothered taking my fly wheel off to adjust the timing .

 

custom ignition maps are nice too.

[shanYE west]

i just couldnt be bothered taking my fly wheel off to adjust the timing .

 

custom ignition maps are nice too.

 

 

who takes their flywheel off to adjust timing??

[Forcefed]

I knew you would say a turbo, which IMO is a completely different animal. Same with a nitrous bike. My stock curve seems to be doing alright. Like I said, we tried the dyna, it hurt us. I would love to try the programmable pvl one day.

 

Like I said, show me one of their personal bikes with a dyna. Dome is in two weeks. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for you.

 

Honest question, why would they have you program one? Because they don't have the cable because they don't run them? The software is free and available online.

 

With all civility ... I didn't see where you said "personal" bikes ... so in that respect & in the examples I gave, you may very well be right.

 

The Cougar dyna I programmed for K&T was for a customer bike, I cannot verify weather they do or don't have the cable or software.

 

Imo - regardless of the type of aspiration, ALL motors will benefit from a custom/spefic ignition lead angle.

 

The Dyna has it's problems compared to that of the MSD - both in the lack of ability to pull curves from the hardware back to the PC & in the OS required to use it ... that being said if have to reply to this

they just aren't worth it if you are looking for power. You can do just as well with a timing plate.

With an opinion of strong disagreement. to each their own I guess.

 

Is the "they" aren't worth it, the Dyna in particular, or just a programmabled ignition all together ?

 

In seriousness & curiousity, when you gained the 5hp and 550rpm by replacing the Dyna with a stock box - were you using pre-programmed/Dyna loaded curves for the test ? And are you aware that what is loaded as "stock" in the Dyna, is actually far from what is loaded in the OEM ignition ?

There is more advance/lead angle from 3600 to 10K (nearly 4deg at the upper rpm's) and Dyna flatlines the ignition from 10K on out, where as the OEM unit continues on the same lead angle past 10k. So from 10,001 & up, the "stock" Dyna curve is adding even more timing ... it is nearly +6 at 11K.

 

If the above wasn't taken into consideration when you swapped to the OEM cdi & reset your plate, it COULD be why the engine reved out the extra RPM giving you the resulting HP increase. If I were to assume you had the "stock" dyna curve selected, with whatever, say 8 on the plate, then I would say the breaking up in that RPM range was due to too much spark lead resulting in some detonation, which limited the extra 550 rpm which left the 5hp you saw on the table ... maybe ?

[RollinRhino]

Not sure on a Banshee if woods riding needs a programmable or not. I can tell you in MX/SX you are handicapped if you don't. Most programmables now have on the fly mapping for course conditions so you don't have to waste time setting up the bike for the event. I am talking pro level here. Not weekend warrior stuff.

 

For a banshee you ride to have fun just get a timing plate. Easiest mod in the world and a quick install. I'm not jumping in to bash or praise programmables because I know people who use them and they are built for a reason and joy riding isn't one of them.

[AKheathen]

Not sure on a Banshee if woods riding needs a programmable or not. I can tell you in MX/SX you are handicapped if you don't. Most programmables now have on the fly mapping for course conditions so you don't have to waste time setting up the bike for the event. I am talking pro level here. Not weekend warrior stuff.

 

For a banshee you ride to have fun just get a timing plate. Easiest mod in the world and a quick install. I'm not jumping in to bash or praise programmables because I know people who use them and they are built for a reason and joy riding isn't one of them.

yes, joy riding is one of them.......i ride for fun...mx/wood/trail/hillshooting, and would hate to be stuck with stock curves, where i would have to choose between it running well in the woods/trails that i take to get to the hillshots, or runnig good on the hillshots, but not so great in the woods, which would probably wear me out more by the time i get to the hills.....i also love the fact that i can plug my trailtech right into the tach out...among other things

[Forcefed]

While we a BS'ing about ignitions & timing, I feel it should be noted that the numbers in my posts are from published sources - One being from Dyna's paperwork that comes with the ignition & the other from the OEM factory service manual.

 

That being said, it was brought to my attention by a good & reputable source, that if one were to make the fixtures needed & implement a timing light to verify actual ignition firing, that the Dyna has a tendancy to wander a bit & not fire exactly when the end user tells it to. And that through unbiased testing, the MSD has a more stable & accurate corellation between intended & actual ignition discharge.

 

I have yet to verify this myself, but do believe this to be a good probability... either way, I thought it was good info to pass along.

[AKheathen]

While we a BS'ing about ignitions & timing, I feel it should be noted that the numbers in my posts are from published sources - One being from Dyna's paperwork that comes with the ignition & the other from the OEM factory service manual.

 

That being said, it was brought to my attention by a good & reputable source, that if one were to make the fixtures needed & implement a timing light to verify actual ignition firing, that the Dyna has a tendancy to wander a bit & not fire exactly when the end user tells it to. And that through unbiased testing, the MSD has a more stable & accurate corellation between intended & actual ignition discharge.

 

I have yet to verify this myself, but do believe this to be a good probability... either way, I thought it was good info to pass along.

i'll have to check that, and see if it goes away with different retarded curves, and plate advance......