Klotz Flex Drive

[bansheesandrider]

ATF is not going cheap. It's what people run in cars that run for 50k+ miles. If you have shifting problems with ATF chances are it isn't the oil's fault.

Car trannys have coolers and filters.When I ran ATF(and motor oil) I had problems with the way it shifted and glitter in the oil when I drained it. I even tore it down but could not find a problem. Put it back together, it still did not shift very good and there was still glitter in the oil when I drained it. When I started running Klotz it shifted better than it ever did and there is no glitter. As for what I know and how much I spend, well I have had my 89 since day 1 and have built it from the ground up 3 times, I stopped counting how much money I have sunk into when I hit 20 grand, and that does not include oil, plugs and gas. I also have had 2 other Banshees for my wife and I am the mechanic for about 5 or 6 other Banshees that I ride with. When we go to the dunes, it is very rare for any of the bikes I am resposible for to break down. Also, I have been a professional mechanic for over 25 years so I think I know my way around things. As was already said, I don't think that after spending thousands of dollars to build a bike that it makes sense to buy the cheapest oil you can for it. This doesn't apply to 2 strokes, but I have taken apart motors that had cheap oil in them and found all kinds of problems that were caused by crappy oil. I have taken apart axles, transmissions and differentials that were comletely destroyed because the cheap no name oil that was used in them did not provide adequate lubrication and protection. I have seen first hand the benefits of using good high quality lubricants and I think it pays off in the long run to use good stuff and change it at the proper interval. I happen to think that oil is a VERY essential part of your engine/ tranny. Like I said before, I have never lost a gear(except a kick idler bushing),bearing, shift fork or clutch ball in the 21 years I have owned my Banshee or the 14 years my wife has had one or the 20 years of Blasters I have had between my wife and kid. I am just stating that when I ran ATF in my bike it shifted poorly compared to how it shifts with the Klotz, and as expensive as the Klotz is, I think that it provides an excellent value for the money. Alot of drag race guys swear by ATF and that is their choice, but if you stop and figure out how little time they get out of the ATF before they change it and compare it to how long you can run the Klotz, I would bet the cost per mile/hour is probably in favor of the Klotz and you get zero wear and better shifting out of it. I did not mean to offend anybody by saying they could not afford expensive oil, I just meant that we should use the best stuff on our pride and joys.

Edited October 20, 2010 by bansheesandrider

[KlotzBanshee]

ATF is not going cheap. It's what people run in cars that run for 50k+ miles. If you have shifting problems with ATF chances are it isn't the oil's fault.

 

I've never had any problems shifting using Bel Rey, ever.

 

The only argument I've ever heard FOR running ATF is that oils like Klotz, Bel Rey, MTL, and others like it are too expensive at 10 to 13 bucks a quart and ATF is 2.50 a quart at any autoparts store.

 

Doesn't that at least sound like being cheap? If we're are wrong, then educate us on why ATF is a better choice other than "its waaay cheaper".

 

-Ryan

[dajogejr]

I used to always use Bel Ray Gear saver oil in my trail bikes, MX bikes, etc.

 

However....WCR cut my trans in my bike.

Their instructions say to use ATF Type F.

The biggest names in the biz say the same.

 

Now...that being said.... a good buddy of mine has switched and is using Mobil 1 5W30 and has been.

It works great for him...

 

I like the fact you can get ATF Type F almost anywhere in a pinch, and obviously the same could be said for Mobil 1.

 

Not so for Bel Ray, Klotz, etc.

 

It could be argued that you make plans to have enough premix oil on hand, you should have extra gear oil too...

 

My argument to that would be Premix is consumed constantly like gas, gear oil shouldn't be...(if it is, you got bigger issues, lol)

 

In the end, I know what works for me...it's not a cost issue. It's a convenience and what works for me thing.

 

I could buy 5 gallon cans of VP M1 (methanol) for 40 to 50 bucks a pop, I could have a warm and fuzzy feeling about it saying VP on the can.

Instead, I buy a 55 gallon drum of Sunoco Methanol (Still 99.99 % pure) for 150 to 175 and I save a bunch, have fuel as long as I have a gas can to put it in....that lasts me a season if not more.

 

You could say that VP has the best methanol available... I'd tell you my bike runs just fine on Sunoco Methanol....

[KlotzBanshee]

I see your point.

 

..but I will still continue to use Bel Ray in my trans. To each his own I guess.

 

-Ryan

[bansheesandrider]

I've never had any problems shifting using Bel Rey, ever.

 

The only argument I've ever heard FOR running ATF is that oils like Klotz, Bel Rey, MTL, and others like it are too expensive at 10 to 13 bucks a quart and ATF is 2.50 a quart at any autoparts store.

 

Doesn't that at least sound like being cheap? If we're are wrong, then educate us on why ATF is a better choice other than "its waaay cheaper".

 

-Ryan

My bike shifted OK with BelRay GearSaver, it shifts better with Klotz. The whole reason that I discovered the Klotz was that the dealer I was getting my BelRay from was always out of it when I went in to get some. As Dajogejr said, I know what works for me and it is Klotz. I also know ATF did not work for me. That is one of the good things about our country- you are free to make your own choices. Because I work on so many different bikes I keep plenty of the Klotz on hand and whenever I order from Rocky MT, I throw a few quarts in the order as long as it is coming ground anyway.

[jbooker82]

I run klotz flex drive. There are lots of oils that work fine. If I am low on or out of flex drive i will just dump some atf type f in and ride. Low transmission oil isnt going to keep me from riding.

 

Heck you could probably put vegtable oil in there from the grocrie store and it would keep the transmission from locking up. And there shouldnt be any friction moddifiers to cause the clutch to slip.

[TG7060]

ATF is not going cheap. It's what people run in cars that run for 50k+ miles. If you have shifting problems with ATF chances are it isn't the oil's fault.

Oil changes if what ever oil you chose is good for your machine the is a good choice. I run a Top Gas Dragbike that's a 8:20 index. bike will run a bit better 7:90's @ 165-170. I run Motul in my engine/trans combo. It does use the same oil for engine and trans together . A day at the track and i change oil, $25-30 for an oil change is good peace of mind. I to have more in my engine than a lot of people. Just in parts for the second back up engine was 8500. That's no machine work ether . I am changing my RD350 out for a Banshee enigne in my Outlaw Sprintkart . I will keep in mind what type of trans and gas mix suggested on here. There's good write up on what happens to oil when it's run through a trans . Lots of shear effect on the oil .

Edited October 22, 2010 by TG7060

[jayzx10r]

Not attacking anyone here but there is no reason to change your oil all that frequently....

 

My official Yamaha RZ350 manual stated oil changes should be every 16,000 (sixteen thousand) miles.

My official Yamaha Banshee manual states oil changes should be once a year.

 

My educated guess is that since Banshees don't have odometers, they decided to just call for annual oil changes to keep it simple.

 

Most old school gear boxes go for 30,000 miles before oil changes so it isn't exactly a far reach here guys.....

 

And my oil of choice is Shell Rotella T synthetic 15w40. I have a magnetic plug and I have zero shavings as well.

 

My $0.02.

[tbcustomz]

I was waiting to see if anyone would mention Rotella synthetic. I run it in my zx10 street bike and it shifts great, but i wasnt sure about the banshee trans.

[RagunCajun]

ATF type F here. Works fine and cheap. I refuse to use anything else that works and is ALSO recommended by my override maker unless it's cheaper.

[jbooker82]

I was waiting to see if anyone would mention Rotella synthetic. I run it in my zx10 street bike and it shifts great, but i wasnt sure about the banshee trans.

 

That would be fine. Yamaha manual specifies Yamaha lube 10w30. It is just a 4 stroke motorcycle "wet clutch" approved oil. I know a lot of guys that run Rotella in 4 stroke atv's with out any problems. Your just running a 4 stroke engine oil wich is what yamaha specifies. I just prefer to run a oil that is specifically desinged for 2 stroke gear boxes or 4 strokes that have seperate transmission / motor oil.