confusion on a 4 mil setup

[Josh Z]

OK. I am confused on the whole four mil set up. I understand that it lengthens your stroke. But what is the difference between just a 4 mil crank and long rods etc. also......

There are a couple options when running stock cylinders. I am currently running a cool head. I have seen people space the base gasket up 2 mil and I have hear of people getting 4 mil cut domes. What is the right/best way? What should your port sizes(from deck height) down be? Do you have to run the 4 mil pistons as well? Thanks for any responses!

[278]

The difference between a normal 4mil. and long rod is on a long rod the piston rods are 5 millimeters longer, this helps reduces the side load on the piston, because when putting in a longer stroke you increase side load due to the angle of the rod. It is a long term reliability thing. As far as the rest of it, yes you need stroker pistons, Wiseco 795 series are what most people run. The spacer plate is a cheap way of doing it and is not recommended. The best way is have your cylinders ported for the longer stroke and have your domes cut or buy some stroker cut domes. I dont have the numbers on me as far as porting the cylinder for a stroker but any builder should be able to help you out.

[Roccdeezy]

OK. I am confused on the whole four mil set up. I understand that it lengthens your stroke. But what is the difference between just a 4 mil crank and long rods etc. also......

There are a couple options when running stock cylinders. I am currently running a cool head. I have seen people space the base gasket up 2 mil and I have hear of people getting 4 mil cut domes. What is the right/best way? What should your port sizes(from deck height) down be? Do you have to run the 4 mil pistons as well? Thanks for any responses!

Regardless of the way you want to go you will have to have special domes or have your head rechambered. The reason for the spacer is to get the port timing correct. The plate is under $100 and thats why people use them. The plate is a poor mans build and usually leaks and the motor goes lean and thats all she wrote. The proper way would be to send the cylinders to a rep machine shope and have the cylinders ported for a 4 mil and then no stroker plate is required. Its about 3 to 4 times the price of the stroker plate. Last but not least you can run a stroker wiseco piston with a banshee stroker dome or blaster wiseco pistons with special cut domes. Keep in mind if you run blaster pistons with banshee domes your setting yourself up for disaster. They have different angle domes and I can't remember the angles off the top of my head,but they are different. Its a lot easier to build a stroker with cubs because they are designed for all different strokes. Also to run blaster pistons you have to go with a 115mm long rod. the stock 110mm with 4mil stroker crank will not work.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Roccdeezy

[Roccdeezy]

There is a lot when builder a stroker. keep in mind a long rod will not change your displacement at all. it just reduces side load on your cylinders and moves your port timing up in the cylinder. Im not sure if they sell a stock stroke 115mm rod but it could possibly raise compression but would need ported cylinders to get port timing correct .it does nothing else.

[278]

Regardless of the way you want to go you will have to have special domes or have your head rechambered. The reason for the spacer is to get the port timing correct. The plate is under $100 and thats why people use them. The plate is a poor mans build and usually leaks and the motor goes lean and thats all she wrote. The proper way would be to send the cylinders to a rep machine shope and have the cylinders ported for a 4 mil and then no stroker plate is required. Its about 3 to 4 times the price of the stroker plate. Last but not least you can run a stroker wiseco piston with a banshee stroker dome or blaster wiseco pistons with special cut domes. Keep in mind if you run blaster pistons with banshee domes your setting yourself up for disaster. They have different angle domes and I can't remember the angles off the top of my head,but they are different. Its a lot easier to build a stroker with cubs because they are designed for all different strokes. Also to run blaster pistons you have to go with a 115mm long rod. the stock 110mm with 4mil stroker crank will not work.

I dont agree with using a cub being easier because it is more expensive and while you can use cubs for anything, they are designed for drag racing and come stock with a drag race port on them. It all depends on what the motor is being build for. I should also add that you cant just buy a cub and use it for any stroke, what he means by they are designed for all different strokes is they have a cub cylinder for each stroke. As far as blaster pistons, thats a whole other subject. Blaster pistons are a larger than banshee pistons. If you want to run them you have to have your cylinders bored out quite a bit or run a cub cylinder. If you are on a budget or use to riding a stock or lightly modified banshee, then go with a 4mil stock cylinder bike for a while and if you want more power you can alway get a cub cylinder and new pistons down the road

[Roccdeezy]

I dont agree with using a cub being easier because it is more expensive and while you can use cubs for anything, they are designed for drag racing and come stock with a drag race port on them. It all depends on what the motor is being build for. I should also add that you cant just buy a cub and use it for any stroke, what he means by they are designed for all different strokes is they have a cub cylinder for each stroke. As far as blaster pistons, thats a whole other subject. Blaster pistons are a larger than banshee pistons. If you want to run them you have to have your cylinders bored out quite a bit or run a cub cylinder. If you are on a budget or use to riding a stock or lightly modified banshee, then go with a 4mil stock cylinder bike for a while and if you want more power you can alway get a cub cylinder and new pistons down the road

I agree a cub is more expensive. But it is easier to pull the cylinder out of the box and put it on with no modification. I run stock drag ported cylinders with 66mm blaster pistons in my 4 mil. Stock cylinders have to have port work done on the exhaust regardless unless a stroker plate is used with a 4mil 115mm rod. The only way to run stock cylinders without any modification is to run a 4 mil 110mm rod with 795 pistons which have the exact same center pin location as a blaster piston with a different angle dome. Almost all aftermarket cylinders are set up for the 115mm rod so it's almost always better to buy the long rod crank in case you plan on upgrading down the road.

[278]

I agree a cub is more expensive. But it is easier to pull the cylinder out of the box and put it on with no modification. I run stock drag ported cylinders with 66mm blaster pistons in my 4 mil. Stock cylinders have to have port work done on the exhaust regardless unless a stroker plate is used with a 4mil 115mm rod. The only way to run stock cylinders without any modification is to run a 4 mil 110mm rod with 795 pistons which have the exact same center pin location as a blaster piston with a different angle dome. Almost all aftermarket cylinders are set up for the 115mm rod so it's almost always better to buy the long rod crank in case you plan on upgrading down the road.

I know you have to have port work done regardless, I have a 4mil. However cubs are purpose built. And unless they are power valve cheetah cubs the power band is not great for trails or mild duning. Like I said it depends on what you are building the motor for and what your budget is. Normally people dont port it them selves thay send it to the builder in which case it is like having an out of the ox cylinder because you get it back and bolt it on.

[Roccdeezy]

I know you have to have port work done regardless, I have a 4mil. However cubs are purpose built. And unless they are power valve cheetah cubs the power band is not great for trails or mild duning. Like I said it depends on what you are building the motor for and what your budget is. Normally people dont port it them selves thay send it to the builder in which case it is like having an out of the ox cylinder because you get it back and bolt it on.

I agree. However I dont know many people that bulid any strokers 4 mil to 20 mil that want low end power to trail ride.I know saying that may stir up some shit on the forum cause i trail ride my banshee time to time but thats not what I built it for. I built it to haul ass up hills and at the sand drags. We are all looking for topend HP at that point. I would say if you want a trail bike leave the stock crank in it with small carbs for quick response on the throttle. A stock banshee with pipes is already faster then it needs to be for trail riding.

 

Not trying to cause problems just stating my opinion just like you. No hard feelings.

[hercalmighty]

I actually like my 4mil a lot better for the trails then a stock stroke. The 4mil gives you the extra torque for trails. I can lug it around a little more then the stock stroke. If you get a 4mil stock cylinder built right for trails with low to mid pipes and some 28 PWKs, it would be a wicked trail bike.

Also, dont forget to look at the Serval cylinders that just came out. Damn good HP and Torque with a real nice power curve. They were tested with CPIs and 34mm carbs with very conservative domes and timing. With low to mid pipes, smaller carbs, more compression and more timing they would kick some ass for woods riding

[Roccdeezy]

I actually like my 4mil a lot better for the trails then a stock stroke. The 4mil gives you the extra torque for trails. I can lug it around a little more then the stock stroke. If you get a 4mil stock cylinder built right for trails with low to mid pipes and some 28 PWKs, it would be a wicked trail bike.

Also, dont forget to look at the Serval cylinders that just came out. Damn good HP and Torque with a real nice power curve. They were tested with CPIs and 34mm carbs with very conservative domes and timing. With low to mid pipes, smaller carbs, more compression and more timing they would kick some ass for woods riding

 

Yeah I knew that would stir up a little tension. No hard feelings. I prefer my ltr in the mountains but I do ride my banshee on trails too. I just feel that most people build strokers for hp and speed. Dont get me wrong any cylinder that gives you good low and high power is good cause we all hate to load our banshee's up and foul plugs. So a good all around power curve is a good thing. But honestly did you build a 4 mil to be a better trail rider or to haul ass. You know what I'm saying.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Roccdeezy

[shanYE west]

The only way to run stock cylinders without any modification is to run a 4 mil 110mm rod with 795 pistons which have the exact same center pin location as a blaster piston with a different angle dome. .

 

 

I dont agree with this at all..

 

 

if your running a 4mil with short rods.. all you'd do is run a standard piston and use a spacer plate. (not that I'm a fan of the plates or recommend them) If you ran the 795 pistons on a short rod 4mil the port timings would be way off along with a very loose squish band.

[shanYE west]

There is a lot when builder a stroker. keep in mind a long rod will not change your displacement at all. it just reduces side load on your cylinders and moves your port timing up in the cylinder. Im not sure if they sell a stock stroke 115mm rod but it could possibly raise compression but would need ported cylinders to get port timing correct .it does nothing else.

 

 

Yes... they do make stock stroke long rod cranks. all you need to run this setup is a 795 series piston.. No porting is required.

[Roccdeezy]

I dont agree with this at all..

 

 

if your running a 4mil with short rods.. all you'd do is run a standard piston and use a spacer plate. (not that I'm a fan of the plates or recommend them) If you ran the 795 pistons on a short rod 4mil the port timings would be way off along with a very loose squish band.

I agree fouledout. That was my fault. The 795 piston is for a long rod. I beleive the 4 mil 110 rod has to use a stroker plate with stock pistons. I dont think I've seen a 110 without the plate.

[AKheathen]

Regardless of the way you want to go you will have to have special domes or have your head rechambered. The reason for the spacer is to get the port timing correct. The plate is under $100 and thats why people use them. The plate is a poor mans build and usually leaks and the motor goes lean and thats all she wrote. The proper way would be to send the cylinders to a rep machine shope and have the cylinders ported for a 4 mil and then no stroker plate is required. Its about 3 to 4 times the price of the stroker plate. Last but not least you can run a stroker wiseco piston with a banshee stroker dome or blaster wiseco pistons with special cut domes. Keep in mind if you run blaster pistons with banshee domes your setting yourself up for disaster. They have different angle domes and I can't remember the angles off the top of my head,but they are different. Its a lot easier to build a stroker with cubs because they are designed for all different strokes. Also to run blaster pistons you have to go with a 115mm long rod. the stock 110mm with 4mil stroker crank will not work.

 

 

There is a lot when builder a stroker. keep in mind a long rod will not change your displacement at all. it just reduces side load on your cylinders and moves your port timing up in the cylinder. Im not sure if they sell a stock stroke 115mm rod but it could possibly raise compression but would need ported cylinders to get port timing correct .it does nothing else.

 

 

I agree a cub is more expensive. But it is easier to pull the cylinder out of the box and put it on with no modification. I run stock drag ported cylinders with 66mm blaster pistons in my 4 mil. Stock cylinders have to have port work done on the exhaust regardless unless a stroker plate is used with a 4mil 115mm rod. The only way to run stock cylinders without any modification is to run a 4 mil 110mm rod with 795 pistons which have the exact same center pin location as a blaster piston with a different angle dome. Almost all aftermarket cylinders are set up for the 115mm rod so it's almost always better to buy the long rod crank in case you plan on upgrading down the road.

 

 

I agree. However I dont know many people that bulid any strokers 4 mil to 20 mil that want low end power to trail ride.I know saying that may stir up some shit on the forum cause i trail ride my banshee time to time but thats not what I built it for. I built it to haul ass up hills and at the sand drags. We are all looking for topend HP at that point. I would say if you want a trail bike leave the stock crank in it with small carbs for quick response on the throttle. A stock banshee with pipes is already faster then it needs to be for trail riding.

 

Not trying to cause problems just stating my opinion just like you. No hard feelings.

dude, you are retarded. i don't even know where to begin, but just about 80%+ of what you said is dead wrong...

 

 

 

maybe i'll scool you when i wake up some. i've just been so overloaded with bullshit that i need to take a crap and clean up in the shower..peace

[shanYE west]

I agree fouledout. That was my fault. The 795 piston is for a long rod. I beleive the 4 mil 110 rod has to use a stroker plate with stock pistons. I dont think I've seen a 110 without the plate.

 

 

The plates have nothing to do with the rod length.. The plates are to accomadate the stroke. a 4mil with 110 rods will use a 513 piston and you can either use a plate.. OR.. have it ported AND use special cut domes for the added stroke.

 

The pistons (795 and 573) are for the rods.. The 573 are used in big bore long rod applications..