dajogejr Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 I can see your point on everything on that list except for fatties...you think Fatties are a mid-top pipe Jeff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Limit Powersports Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 You have to understand that this motor has the capability to do what most builders can only try to do. This motor was built as what i would call a perfect trail/dune motor. As most have there own idea of what a "perfect" motor is and we cant satisfy everybody with one setup, I feel a motor that is 100% setup for bottom end is not the perfect setup for the duner, duners typically want a motor that will rev as well. IMO and thats exactly what it is "opinion" i feel that this motor will be setup a bunch of different ways some great others not so much but as we try to build to suit everybody this cylinder is the best starting point for the non-dragger. Im glad to get another opinion on how this motor really feels. If your interested in setting one up give me a call and we can get you setup to try one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcefed Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 (edited) Snop- Maybe some people are interested though - I can see where you are coming from... could it be better with other parts in other RPM ranges ... i'm sure it can. But please keep in mind though, I/we had the reeds & carbs allready purchased, so we bolted on what we had. That being said, & Imo, the owner of this bike has a riding style that suites the combo installed very nicely.... & he agrees. I didn't mean this to be an end-all be-all test of these cylinders, but rather just documenting to the public which direction we (within monetary means) were headed & to give an unbiased/honest opinion of these particular results from a seat of the pants view. p.s. I have never been on sand or dune riding, so I won't give an opinion of how this would act - but if I had to guess ... It would Rock. Edited October 7, 2010 by Forcefed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Daj....That fatty pipe is basically the predecessor of the orignal gold series pipe and the T5 was copied off that. They are a midrange pipe that pulls to about 9,500rpm. So its just a cookie cutter mid-top pipe. The CPI is a way better mid-top pipe, but both pipes are still out of the working power range of that motor. Andy, Duners in my parts are different than Duners in California. I am a Duner, and I run a low-mid setup bike. We have traditional open dune bikes up here, but they dont do well on the sand trails or in the holes. With the duration numbers that were thrown out for the motor, all these parts people are bolting on and testing are setup to peak out of the working rpm range of the serval cat cylinders without any extra porting. The parts are also coming on and making power later in the rpm than what something else better suited would do. CPI's, vf3's, and pwk 35's belong on cub motors, not a bigger bore cylinder with 188 degree exhaust duration. Honestly if you guys rode a low-mid built large bore motor, it would having you re-think the whole idea of a mid-top motor in the sand. We have a 460cc 7 mill cub thats been re-sleeved and had the exhaust set at a lower duration, and the thing is a kick in the ass. Tons of torque, and it just flat out takes off when you roll on the throttle. It runs pc pipes, 28mm carbs bored to 30mm, and mid-tension carbon reed petals on it. I cant remeber the torque number it made on the dyno, but it put down 94hp on the crank dyno still. I just want to make sure you guys realize that you will never see enough rpm for the serval cat to benefit from 35mm pwks, or cpis because of its port durations. Your leaving torque and hp on the table still by the mismatched parts. I wanna know what this thing can do, and I dont think we have even really tapped into that yet. Yes duning is a big market, but what about trails, mx, and people who ride the oregon dunes? Basically, if your not drag racing or just flying up a 400' tall dune wide open, then you can greatly benefit from more low end and midrange torue/hp. I cant express enough how much cooler it feels when a bike accelerates fast through the gears as you roll on the throttle and pulls the weels off the ground vs just having a high top speed and riding it up to that speed pinned at max rpm. Shane has all the bolt-ons it needs and he expressed interest in doing one, and I would be happy to make sure it got dyno tested on the crank dyno. I think the Serval Cat is a great idea, but I think if you properly tested one with all the matching bolt ons, it would truly show what this thing can do, and that in turn would make it even more appealing to everyone with every riding style beside drag racing and open dune riding. I want this setup to succeed, because I still need to do something else, and resleeving a cub motor then putting in a 7 mill crank is a lot more expensive than what a serval cat cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 I think since Andy is willing to let Snop try one out...he can make his own conclusions. I agree with Tim and Chris...most duners want this kind of power/setup. I don't see to many shees being used in MX...but tight trails are another thing. That being said...I can't see 80HP at any RPM range/torque curve being usable or worthwhile if the terrain and conditions are that tight. It'd be like having a top fuel dragster to go up and down the driveway...how fast can you really go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Looks like we posted at the same time...lol. I've ridden fatty bikes, T5s I actually owned...and gold pipes. IMO...the fatty is the best low-mid of the three pipes. I would agree T5s are very, very close in power output to the old school gold series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 I think since Andy is willing to let Snop try one out...he can make his own conclusions. I agree with Tim and Chris...most duners want this kind of power/setup. I don't see to many shees being used in MX...but tight trails are another thing. That being said...I can't see 80HP at any RPM range/torque curve being usable or worthwhile if the terrain and conditions are that tight. It'd be like having a top fuel dragster to go up and down the driveway...how fast can you really go? that first 460cc cub motor was done for a guy up here that races his banshee in mx. After that one was done, there were 3 more bikes done with the setup because of the power that the one mx banshee was putting down on the dyno. All 4 of the guys love the motor, its just damn expensive to do, and they were all willing to pay for it to have that kind of power output. 3 of those motors are in banshees that strictly only see sand. The FMF Gnarley is their torque pipe, that was modeled after the old FMF woods pipes they made in the late 80's early 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcoholbanshee Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Shit, you're younger than me. I'm one old F'er.... How did you get to be the professor at such a young age? LOL.... If you have ever sat by a campfire at 2 in the morning with Chris...........you would understand why they call him the professor....................Dude just cant stop himself...............he is all about 2 stroke theory...............lol...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 You two weren't alone, by the campfire at 2 AM talking about two stroke theory...were you? Moonshine involved?? LOL..... Well, he's also getting it done pretty damn well on the 4 strokes too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydownunder Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 well, id like to see how these go with stock carbs and T5's, sounds like a good setup for these cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05stroker Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Shane has all the bolt-ons it needs and he expressed interest in doing one, and I would be happy to make sure it got dyno tested on the crank dyno. That would be me. I am running a 4mil long rod with dune ported stock cylinders at the moment. I have a cool head with 19cc domes at about 175 psi. The cylinders are on their first bore at .030. I think it comes in at 372cc or something close to that. I'm running pro circuit pipes, tm 28mm flat slides, and stock reed cages with boysen reeds. The bike has good usable power and runs pretty well, but I think with this serval cat I would see a definite power increase. If I could make the same or even more hp/ tq on pump gas I would be very interested. The $5 a gallon savings would pay for this setup in about 2 years. (race fuel= $8 per gallon, 92 octane= $3 per gallon). I could get with Snope and put my current setup on the crank dyno and get the numbers on the race gas. Then swap out the cylinders and install the serval and run it on the dyno. We could try the lower compression domes on pump fuel and even try a set of higher compression domes on race fuel. See how much advantage their is either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasicBajaX Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 I am looking forward to seeing some of these different engine/pipe/carb combo's tested and more towards the dune/play bike setups. I think I would like it in a well setup 450 frame...I have been wanting to do the street bike conversion to my spare DS chassis but I think I would rather go with a reliable Serval direction with out leaning towards a drag bike...just need a rolling 450 chassis to trade for my DS chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 I'd love to see that power plant in a modern suspended chassis.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcefed Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Damn, took the initiative to be one of the 1st to lab rat this cylinder (payed full price-fyi) stimulated the HQ economy with several builders, reported everything I could with pics, & am getting crucified over a set of carbs & reeds. Not looking for a pat on the head ... nor do I want one ... but how about maybe buying a set of Servals & setting it up how you see fit ... or you can donate some 28's & a set of Boyesons. I'm done here. (thanks Rog & Daj - talk to ya'll l8r) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Chris... Jeff (Snop) just has a way of typing, he doesn't mean to offend anyone by it. Him and I have gone rounds in the past because of how bull headed we both are. That being said... Don't take his bluntness as being harsh, that's just how he is. He's not discrediting you or your work or what you're trying to do. He just rides a different way, and I've come to respect and value his opinion greatly, he's very good at what he does, just as you are. And he's very thorough as well. While he probably won't type up an apology (that' how he is...lol) I thought it would help hearing it from my perspective...that's all. Chris, I've always valued your input and advice here and other places. Don't let anyone or anything get you down, you're doing a great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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