Scotty Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 A +4 arm will help you in the handling department. It won't make your bike so long that it can't turn, plus it will keep the tires on the ground so you CAN turn. I've got 2 banshee's that we're running on MX tracks with +6 arms! Eveyone says we look like we're racing on limo's, but they jump great and nobody can believe how hard we can come out of the turns. (That whole -1 arm crowd must race against blasters on a miniature golf course) Once your making the kind of power that new combo of yours will be making, a stock swingarm will only limit the amount of throttle you can use. MY VOTE: STRETCH IT +4 to +6! Just cause you dont have the skill to ride with a Negative dont trash it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 Just cause you dont have the skill to ride with a Negative dont trash it. SKILL? I'm not sure how making your bike shorter so it will turn tighter is skill. I think making a bike longer and making it still turn tight is the skill part. (learn to use the front brake more and get back into the gas before you let off the front brakes and you'll see that bike pivot on a penny and you'll be hitting the pipe sooner) But the -1 crowd are hard core stuck in that 80's mentality that tucking the tires closer under the weight of the machine somehow "adds" traction. Funny thing is....I'll be bikes ahead of you in the first turn because I don't have to lift off the gas or scrub off power by slipping the clutch to keep the front down. But what the heck, I knew someone would bash the +4,+6 statement...so I just bashed the -1 first. He'll know what works best for "his style" of riding. The -1 is (at best) for the dedicated MX ride. Sorry, but if your going to climb any hills, race a track with long straights or drag it for fun against anyone, than stretch it a little. If your going to race on a small backyard BMX track with kids on blasters and raptor 250's and run in 2-3-4th gear all day...go with the -1 arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorK Posted August 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 I plan on getting extended a arms and front shocks before ex swinger but let's see how I like the stocker first. Just talked to Kevin he's gonna do mid-top porting for my T5s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilarious Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 +1 on a longer swing arm. My play bike is set up similar with a few exceptions and it was pretty squirrely with the stock swingarm on it. Got a deal on a +6. It will still wheelie but its more controled. Ditch the air box and stock carbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarineNYC Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 SKILL? I'm not sure how making your bike shorter so it will turn tighter is skill. I think making a bike longer and making it still turn tight is the skill part. (learn to use the front brake more and get back into the gas before you let off the front brakes and you'll see that bike pivot on a penny and you'll be hitting the pipe sooner) But the -1 crowd are hard core stuck in that 80's mentality that tucking the tires closer under the weight of the machine somehow "adds" traction. Funny thing is....I'll be bikes ahead of you in the first turn because I don't have to lift off the gas or scrub off power by slipping the clutch to keep the front down. But what the heck, I knew someone would bash the +4,+6 statement...so I just bashed the -1 first. He'll know what works best for "his style" of riding. The -1 is (at best) for the dedicated MX ride. Sorry, but if your going to climb any hills, race a track with long straights or drag it for fun against anyone, than stretch it a little. If your going to race on a small backyard BMX track with kids on blasters and raptor 250's and run in 2-3-4th gear all day...go with the -1 arm. Lets see a pic of you flying through the air with that +6 swinger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbcmudtruck Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 The -1 swinger is for some and not for others. To say that its for guys racing blasters and 250s is just ignorant! I just switched from a -1 to a +6 and I hate it. It feels like I'm driving a dam bus around. It helps keep the front end down, but that is on the only positive thing about it. Trail riding sucks, turning sucks, jumping sucks and overall handling sucks. If you plan on trail riding at all, I personally wouldn't go with anything longer than a +4. With the motor your building, I wouldn't hesitate at all to try a -1. Once you get the hang of riding a -1, you'll never go back. I was forced into a longer swinger due to a crazy ass new motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Reynolds Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 IF you cant notice a major difference in turning with a +4 or more swingarm,then there is something very wrong. I started out with a +2 on my 4mil trail bike and quickly switched back to a stocker when i noticed it turned slower Honestly a good rider is going to need to be able to lift the front end at will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Gee...didn't realize that the banshee was just one small inch away from perfection. So I guess the deal is...you take a bike that was making @ 34 HP and bring it into the 60+HP club, and you all think the swingarm needs to then be -1 shorter. So you can "pick the front wheels up at will." Really? Cause I thought that was what the 60 HP was for. I use that little lever connected to the carbs...that throttle thingy. I find when I hit that like I mean to...the bike jumps up like I stuck a finger in it's exit hole. Maybe some of you should talk to your motor guys about a HP issue. I guess I'll try thinking like you guys for a while....let's see..... I guess a wider bike can't turn as tight as a narrow one. A shorter bike sure must feel alot better than a longer one cause you guys just won't stop raving about a -1.....So I guess I'll go back to a stock A-arm and axle to narrow up the bike. (I'm sure it'll fit through tighter trails that way....I've always wanted to ride the Mountain bike trails with a banshee) Then I'll get a -1 arm so I can turn a U turn on the deck of a snomobile trailer. (That'll make loading easy) And while I'm at it I'll see if I can get some taller shocks for more trail ground clearance. Sound like I've joined the club? Now I'll have a narrow, tall, short bike with over 60+HP, and since it will turn the best ever....I guess I'll be faster than before.......except any time I'm not turning. Maybe instead of doing a -1 arm on my machine, I'll just drop a 4 mill Banshee motor in my kids Raptor 80 and eat you for breakfast. After all...you can't get much narrower or shorter than that. Man think of the traction I'll have with all of that motor weight along with my weight on the rear tires. I'll look like I'm running a go-kart motor on a rollerskate....but I guess that's the hot look now huh? OK, you win. -1 rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarineNYC Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 What a jackass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbcmudtruck Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 What a jackass. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hercalmighty Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 I think what swinger you run depends on your riding area. I ride on the east coast with lots of tight trails and tight motocross tracks. Also a lot of the ground I ride on is either grass or hard packed where my biggest issue is traction. I have a 4mil dune port and I just run my stocker. I get decent traction, good turning, and really don't have too many issues with it wheeling bad. If I was going to be doing drags or hillclimbs I would change my tires and my swinger. But since 90% of my riding is tight trails and MX, I stick to my stocker. I think the best advise is get the thing together and see what its doing. If you. Can't get traction for shit and you have good tires change to a -1, if you just can't keep the front end down go to an extended swing arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Gee...didn't realize that the banshee was just one small inch away from perfection. So I guess the deal is...you take a bike that was making @ 34 HP and bring it into the 60+HP club, and you all think the swingarm needs to then be -1 shorter. So you can "pick the front wheels up at will." Really? Cause I thought that was what the 60 HP was for. I use that little lever connected to the carbs...that throttle thingy. I find when I hit that like I mean to...the bike jumps up like I stuck a finger in it's exit hole. Maybe some of you should talk to your motor guys about a HP issue. I guess I'll try thinking like you guys for a while....let's see..... I guess a wider bike can't turn as tight as a narrow one. A shorter bike sure must feel alot better than a longer one cause you guys just won't stop raving about a -1.....So I guess I'll go back to a stock A-arm and axle to narrow up the bike. (I'm sure it'll fit through tighter trails that way....I've always wanted to ride the Mountain bike trails with a banshee) Then I'll get a -1 arm so I can turn a U turn on the deck of a snomobile trailer. (That'll make loading easy) And while I'm at it I'll see if I can get some taller shocks for more trail ground clearance. Sound like I've joined the club? Now I'll have a narrow, tall, short bike with over 60+HP, and since it will turn the best ever....I guess I'll be faster than before.......except any time I'm not turning. Maybe instead of doing a -1 arm on my machine, I'll just drop a 4 mill Banshee motor in my kids Raptor 80 and eat you for breakfast. After all...you can't get much narrower or shorter than that. Man think of the traction I'll have with all of that motor weight along with my weight on the rear tires. I'll look like I'm running a go-kart motor on a rollerskate....but I guess that's the hot look now huh? OK, you win. -1 rules! With all Due respect, Keep in mind i said "With all Due Respect" Your opinion aint worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on. You Have proved that you have no knowledge of anything to do with ATV geometry.(I sense the Sarcasm) Your attempt at comedy to hide the fact that you dont know shit was pretty sad. Get whatever swinger you want, but dont base any decision on what this tool says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 What a jackass. At least I'm a Jackass who still ownes a Banshee!! Unlike someone on here who keeps posting on "BansheeHQ" even though he sold his Banshee and is stuck rockin' the 4 stroke scene. Listen, I get the geometry. I'm 40. I've been at this since Banshee's had gold wheels and J-arms. But I never liked the -1 set-ups. They were a big deal back in the day, when you didn't have 4mill motors and most bikes didn't have porting. It was Banshee vs.250R and the Honda had better handling. So the -1 and the custom A-arms made the Banshee feel like a 250R. (Honda was still lighter and better for MX) But I don't feel that -1 with tons more power is a good combo. Maybe in super tight trail riding you might think +4 or +6 is too long. But if the trails are that tight and slow enough that turning is everything....then I'd be looking at a 4 stroke for those ride conditions. (maybe even one with reverse) My next 4 stroke will be a KTM 450XC and I'll put a +4 on that bike too. Maybe it's just me. I'm 6'0" and I'm more comfortable on a longer bike. I ran a GNCC style Hair scrambler on my ported 370 long rod Banshee with +2+1 arms and a +4 swinger with a +2 axle and I had no troubles. I've got a rider running MX with a full 4 mill motor and he was either blowing the tires off or having to lift so it wouldn't flip. I put a +4 arm on his bike and he loved it...till he rode mine with a +6. Now we both run a +6. We both had no trouble running faster lap times than the raptor 700's and 1/2 the built 450's. (Sorry, I'm 40...I don't go for the triples anymore. When it comes to Woods/Trail/GNCC...(For the record)....We don't run in stuff tight enough to need hand guards. The wife's bike is just for her to use on the dunes (she doesn't dirt ride)It has a +6 arm and +2+1 A-arms. (Dyno'd at 64HP with a Graydon 2 into one jetted fat and timed stock till she get's use to the power) My dune bike is a Chromoly Metal Tech +4 front frame with +2+1 A-arms and a +10 arm. (Fully ported 472 cheetah last dyno'd at 95HP...we'll see in a week with the new pipes ) So for whatever it's worth.....I'm kind of familiar with the modded banshee chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKheathen Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 ok, you are all right, and all wrong. swinger length depends on 1-power, 2- rider weight, 3-rider style, 4-rider opinion, 5- conditions, 6- tire tread, and7- wheel/axle mass. so you throw an 80 punder on the +6 and most places he is not going foar, or will be able to use more than 25 of that 60+hp, now, you throw a 250 pouner on a -1, and the bike will likely ride him backwards on several occasions. inbetween there, where and how you ride on the bike, how the tires hook and effect the bike will give you the feel of how much length you need. i don't like the stocker, because i cracked mine in half just riddin trails. if you have a -1 to get traction, yo'll likely get used to shifting weight moreover the front tires and ride that way, not really getting used to throw your ass back over the wheels, or let the the bike throw you back to plant the tires deeper, since doing so will just throw the front up instantly. it's plain fact that you get more stability from wider wheel base, longer wheelbase, lower center of gravity, and more centered mass concentration. if you don't believe me, go read some chassis engeneering literature. it's also just simple geometry that the shorter swinger will apply more weight to the tires with the steeper angle forcing down as well as foreward, which is also seen as the greater mass pushing down harder as it pushes back. longer arms aren't going to get you close to honda geometry, since it's the frame mounting that effects it more greatlyu, and sets the foundation for the front geometry. .........eh, this is tiring today.......... good day sirs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandfrk33 Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Yeah, what he said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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