The ultimate showdown cool head vs shaved stock head

[dajogejr]

As I said before, he's just taking way too many things for granted for my taste.

 

Brandon is a great guy, Bob @RB Porting is a great guy...and I ran a chambered, cut and Oring'd stock head on my 10 mil cub for a little while. It can be done...a lot can be done with a stock head.

 

But it's not just as simple as take a little off...yeah, you're good. More to it than that.

[locogato11283]

Wait...Wal-Mart doesn't have stock milled heads?

[SLORYDER]

You're stuck on .068 as factory squish.

No, I know it is approximately .068". You should measure before you cut.

You believe .035 is widely accepted as being safe on a banshee.

It is.

You realize there "may be" other factors like MSV, squish band width, etc. but you don't think milling it down .035 will cause any issues based on your experience....but you never MEASURED any of that other than just the squish.

 

I have heard of more than one person doing it and no problems after years of riding.

Please stop. You're going to steer someone down a wrong path and cause them an expensive repair bill.

You're talking about just enough to be dangerous in this thread.

Milling the stock head .020" is not dangerous unless your head is already milled.

 

In reading your post about 3 times, to make sure I didn't miss something, you have entirely too many "about" and "should be" in your post.

That is why I would not recommending cutting unless you measure first. There are too many variables

 

Again, I can't speak for every one out there.

But I believe my advice would be best for the majority of those out there.

 

Before you consider buying a cool head, you should ask yourself "Do I plan on changing my steup more than three or four times"

If the answer is yes, then maybe you should consider a cool head.

If the answer is no, and you want the best bang for your buck, Get a set of pipes, mill your stock head, mod your timing plate, and send your jugs to get ported.

You should be able to afford a much better port job now that you've saved money on the cool head.

 

 

Do you still disagree with me?

Edited August 3, 2010 by SLORYDER

[So Cal Suspension]

Do you still disagree with me?

Yes. I think we all still disagree with you.

[SLORYDER]

And let me re-iterate I would not recommend ANYONE arbitrarily lop .035" off their head.

However on an engine with stock gaskets stock crank and pistons I would recommend arbitrarily going .030", and using 50/50 pump gas/ race fuel.

I know .035" can be done though if you know what you're doing.

 

So milling your stock head for 50/50 pump gas .030" $50. I believe this is something that can be done arbitrarily to any stock engine.

 

Thicker head gasket for pump gas $15. 2 setups for a total of $65

 

Want to go race fuel Head shipped $30 Mull machining $85 Total of $115

 

Wanna go 4mill up to 50/50 race gas Head shipped Mull machining $115

 

So far you're in the hole less than $300 and you have 4 different setups. The same price as a used cool head with 4 sets of domes.

 

Wanna go 4mill on alky now it's time for a cool head.

 

So to me it's clear that if you plan on building an all out drag bike, buy a cool head.

If not, maybe what I've been saying all along was actually a good idea...Dunno...

[So Cal Suspension]

...Dunno...

That's clear...

[okbeast]

And let me re-iterate I would not recommend ANYONE arbitrarily lop .035" off their head.

However on an engine with stock gaskets stock crank and pistons I would recommend arbitrarily going .030", and using 50/50 pump gas/ race fuel.

I know .035" can be done though if you know what you're doing.

 

So milling your stock head for 50/50 pump gas .030" $50. I believe this is something that can be done arbitrarily to any stock engine.

 

Thicker head gasket for pump gas $15. 2 setups for a total of $65

 

Want to go race fuel Head shipped $30 Mull machining $85 Total of $115

 

Wanna go 4mill up to 50/50 race gas Head shipped Mull machining $115

 

So far you're in the hole less than $300 and you have 4 different setups. The same price as a used cool head with 4 sets of domes.

 

Wanna go 4mill on alky now it's time for a cool head.

 

So to me it's clear that if you plan on building an all out drag bike, buy a cool head.

If not, maybe what I've been saying all along was actually a good idea...Dunno...

 

How many people have said this was NOT a good idea?

 

Quit typing it, so hopefully it won't show up on people's searches.

 

And at first, your way of doing the stock head was cheaper than the coolhead. Now they are the same price for the same amount of setups. And with the coolhead, you would have domes cut EXACTLY to what you needed and was safe. Hmm, maybe what you've been saying all along was actually a bad idea...Dunno...

[SLORYDER]

How many people have said this was NOT a good idea?

No one.

.020" is a good number to cut for pump gas. No one will argue with that

.030" is a good number to cut for 50/50. I know of countless people who have done this without problem

 

And at first, your way of doing the stock head was cheaper than the coolhead. Now they are the same price for the same amount of setups. And with the coolhead, you would have domes cut EXACTLY to what you needed and was safe. Hmm, maybe what you've been saying all along was actually a bad idea...Dunno...

 

My way of doing the stock head IS cheaper than a cool head. 50 vs 150-250.

 

You could do 2 setups, which would be good for the vast majority of people out there for $65, which is $120-250 cheaper than a cool head with two setups.

 

You could do three setups, including having Mull rechamber your head for $180, which is $60 to $240 cheaper than a cool head.

 

Only after four setups does the cool head become worth it to me.

 

Bopttom line...People have been milling the stock head .030" for YEARS and YEARS with no problems. Just run avgas or 50/50 blens.

People have been using .020" for years and years on super unleaded.

Both will give you gains, similar to a cool head.

Edited August 3, 2010 by SLORYDER

[okbeast]

I guess you didn't see the part that was in font 50. The milling, then stacking up head gaskets to get your squish back to normal not being the good idea.

[So Cal Suspension]

[SLORYDER]

I guess you didn't see the part that was in font 50. The milling, then stacking up head gaskets to get your squish back to normal not being the good idea.

 

Milling your head .030" is not a bad idea by any stretch.

Milling your head .030" and then running a head gasket that is .010" thicker is not a bad idea either. Everything will be exactly the same as if you'd only milled it .020", which again isn't a bad idea.

 

Brandon stated that in HIS head that has been worked to .040" squish you would have to run a .060" head gasket to safely run pump, giving you .090" or so squish. This is something completely different than what I'm talking about. I'm talking about moving your squish from .040" to .050", wich would put you at the high end of pump gas and the low end of blend.No one said anything about stacking gaskets. I'm talking running a .010" gasket or a .020" gasket, if stock is .010" which I believe is correct.

Edited August 3, 2010 by SLORYDER

[SLORYDER]

no, i'm not saying that. i'm saying you can get more power out of a coolhead, period. there you go again on severely biased comparisons. think about it....now think about it again......now smack yourself upside the head, and get yo mind right. unbiased- the coolhead is for the guy who is more seroius about building. porting is also for the guy more serious about building. porting gets you more power, so is the more important mod of the 2 and done first. look around- pretty much most ported bikes either have, or are waiting for a coolhead. most bikes without a coolhead are stock cyl, with little more than pipes. just keeping with the origional criteria, not switching things up like someone.....

 

I'm just trying to give an example of where the extra money could be spent.

[SLORYDER]

 

 

Stating firm temperature, horsepower, or power curve numbers is impossible since there are so many variables. I could say "My xxcc xxmm bore xx degree domes with a xx wide squish area in a Banshee with xx carbs and xx jets and +xx timing will run 20 degrees cooler on a 95 degree day when the barometric pressure is 29.90. It might sound really intelligent to someone (probably not) but it would be BS.

 

 

Then tell me this..

What would you say is the average temperature a highly tuned bike with your head runs in the summer compared to a stock head setup?

 

At least give me one scenario where you measured the temps against a stock head in a similar situation.

[dajogejr]

Slo..

Do me a favor.

Let's find out credibility.

 

How many motors have you built.

How many motors have you ported.

How many bikes have you tuned, either at the dunes, the trails, your garage, etc.

How many bikes have you shaved the head on? How many have you used cool heads?

How many different dome and or stock shaved head configurations have you personally done, tested and run on your own equipment?

Going for a ride or riding your buddies bike does not count.

 

What is your personal background and personal experience with different brands of cool heads, different dome configurations for different bore motors, different stroke motors, different ported motors.

 

When you can answer all of that with great convincing, we will take you more seriously.

Until then, IMO...you're pissing in the wind.

[So Cal Suspension]

Slo..

Do me a favor.

Let's find out credibility.

 

How many motors have you built.

How many motors have you ported.

How many bikes have you tuned, either at the dunes, the trails, your garage, etc.

How many bikes have you shaved the head on? How many have you used cool heads?

How many different dome and or stock shaved head configurations have you personally done, tested and run on your own equipment?

Going for a ride or riding your buddies bike does not count.

 

What is your personal background and personal experience with different brands of cool heads, different dome configurations for different bore motors, different stroke motors, different ported motors.

 

When you can answer all of that with great convincing, we will take you more seriously.

Until then, IMO...you're pissing in the wind.

You know damn well you won't get any answers to those questions. Just more blabbing about how he's an expert...