The ultimate showdown cool head vs shaved stock head

[SLORYDER]

Slo, ill ask again, why does it have to be a brand new head and domes? If your on a budget you could buy a used cool head and domes. It will save you a lot of money.

I know I have gone through 3 domes so far since I bought my cool head. I'm not some big time racer or anything but when I do something I like to do it right. So in my case I would have gotten the heads rechambered. So that would have cost me on the low end 310. Since I went the cool head route it cost me 360, 160 for new head, 50 for new 20cc domes, 85 for new 20cc stroker domes and 65 for used 23cc stroker domes. I could have gotten everything a lot cheaper if I bought everything used but I didn't. Oh and I did sell my 20cc standard domes for 40 so I made some back.

 

Look, I'm not saying the shaved head is a bad thing but to do it right it should be rechambered. Then when you compare that to the price of a used head its not that big of a difference.

If you want to prove your point do some test. Test a stock motor with a stock head, a shaved head for race fuel, a cool head with equal size domes, the race fuel head with the bigger gasket, and a cool head with equal domes as the bigger gasket setup. Post HP, torque, and temps. Make it fair and unbiased. Then we can decide what's best. Oh add in a rechambered head also.

 

Herc, a few pages back I stated that if you could pick one up for cheap and planned on doing a ot of builds it was a decent Idea.

I'm just saying man for 1 or 2 hp it isn't worth it in my book.

Even if you can get one for 150 used that's 100 more than the stock shaved head. For 1 or 2 hp. You could put that toward a more aggressive port job and have more like an 8 to 10 hp bump...

 

But in your case apparently it was a decent investment. Not a lot of people change setups that often though. Comparitively speaking.

[SLORYDER]

How do you know this?

 

And from those graphs, how do you know which parts "added" hp?

 

It is well known that the vitos pistons deliver a consistent 5-6hp. I know that the timing and vf3 reeds ad to add another 2. So that leaves 2-4 hp that the head delivered. No more than 5. And on the bikes I've ridden with shaved heads, the bump was very noticeable, telling me it was at least 3 or 4 horsepower.

[okbeast]

It is well known that the vitos pistons deliver a consistent 5-6hp. I know that the timing and vf3 reeds ad to add another 2. So that leaves 2-4 hp that the head delivered. No more than 5. And on the bikes I've ridden with shaved heads, the bump was very noticeable, telling me it was at least 3 or 4 horsepower.

 

No way, you could feel 3 or 4 HP in your ass-dyno

[hercalmighty]

That is one point guys are trying to make. The flexability the cool head offers is well worth the money. And let's be honest, banshees are a damn addiction. Once you start modding it usally doesn't stop. So the cool head option is great in that way because it can grow with you for a lot of builds.

[SLORYDER]

No way, you could feel 3 or 4 HP in your ass-dyno

 

I promise you you can feel 4 horsepower.

[okbeast]

I promise you you can feel 4 horsepower.

 

Is it the left or right cheek that feels HP? Cuz I'm also interested in getting a torque gain through the famed butt-dyno.

 

Maybe I could get each cheek to do one...hm

[SLORYDER]

That is one point guys are trying to make. The flexability the cool head offers is well worth the money. And let's be honest, banshees are a damn addiction. Once you start modding it usally doesn't stop. So the cool head option is great in that way because it can grow with you for a lot of builds.

 

If you plan on running only a 350 I don't see how it's worth it.

 

Even if you want to go 4 mill, all you have to do is buy another stock head and run a thicker head gasket.

 

Now a drag bike, re-chamber ot cool head.

[okbeast]

Not to mention the extra cooling? That seems to have been lost in the whole conversation.

 

I'm not 100% sure, but with high compression I would guess temps. would go up. And usually people raise the compression when they get a coolhead. So to say it isn't helping cool any is a false statement.

 

And the fact that when you mill the stock head you lose cooling surface, screw up the squish, dome angle, etc.

[SLORYDER]

Not to mention the extra cooling? That seems to have been lost in the whole conversation.

 

I'm not 100% sure, but with high compression I would guess temps. would go up. And usually people raise the compression when they get a coolhead. So to say it isn't helping cool any is a false statement.

 

And the fact that when you mill the stock head you lose cooling surface, screw up the squish, dome angle, etc.

 

Whenyou mill the stock head you actually improve the squish.

I don't see why you defend this cool head thing so much without any evidence to back it up....?

 

I have heard far more stories telling how they got no additional cooling with a cool head.

Edited August 2, 2010 by SLORYDER

[okbeast]

I'm not really defending anything. Just stating my opinion.

 

Plus the fact that the last 2 MVP threads you started about poop and some fiber shit that made your dick harder or w/e it was.

 

 

Edit:

 

And wouldn't more surface area cool better? I think that's what I learned in Heat Transfer last semester, but silly college and basic principles, what are they?

Edited August 2, 2010 by okbeast

[donkeypuncher]

I'm brainwashed because I showed proof that a cool head only gains 2 to 4 horsepower, the same as a milled stock head?

 

Where's your proof that I'm wrong?

Not ONE person that voted yes has ANY proof, so yeah, I'd say you are all brainwashed, actually.

 

 

first off, learn how to quote somebody. second, the poll you started was whether or not a cool head is worth the money. our proof that it is has been stated in all of our reply's. you are basing your opinion on hp gains alone. thats not the only reason we run a cool head. adjustability and cooler temps also play a role. the reason most dont notice a significant change in temp with a cool head is because they are also increasing their compression with smaller domes at the same time.

[SLORYDER]

I'm not really defending anything. Just stating my opinion.

 

Plus the fact that the last 2 MVP threads you started about poop and some fiber shit that made your dick harder or w/e it was.

 

 

Edit:

 

And wouldn't more surface area cool better? I think that's what I learned in Heat Transfer last semester, but silly college and basic principles, what are they?

 

Don't you find it funny that the manufacturers of these cool heads NEVER state an actual amount that the heads reduce the coolant temperature?

Don't you think that if it was a significant amount they would be proud to state the amount of degrees cooler your banshee would run?

 

Well, they DON'T. Ask yourself why.

It's because they DO NOT provide any SIGNIFICANT reduction in coolant temperature. Bottom line.

Sure, more aluminum plus fins equals extra cooling, but it is not significant enough of a difference for these guys to state on their website. That is lame. They provide no proof, yet people are quick to jump on the bandwagon.

Think about it.

[SLORYDER]

first off, learn how to quote somebody. second, the poll you started was whether or not a cool head is worth the money. our proof that it is has been stated in all of our reply's. you are basing your opinion on hp gains alone. thats not the only reason we run a cool head. adjustability and cooler temps also play a role. the reason most dont notice a significant change in temp with a cool head is because they are also increasing their compression with smaller domes at the same time.

 

Like I said earlier, if the difference was significant the manufacturer would state numbers on their site.

 

You guys have no proof other than what has been told to you.

 

You are better off spending the money on porting. Bottom line. Unless you want to "look" cool, or plan on going all out.

[So Cal Suspension]

Don't you find it funny that the manufacturers of these cool heads NEVER state an actual amount that the heads reduce the coolant temperature?

Don't you think that if it was a significant amount they would be proud to state the amount of degrees cooler your banshee would run?

 

You fail at life.

 

Here is a direct quote from pro-designs website:

Billet aluminum/CNC cylinder heads are available for many high performance applications. These state-of-the-art heads have replaceable combustion chambers for easy tuning, or custom order for your application( altitude, port timing, and fuel, ect.). Up to 70% better cooling, increased reliability and CAD assisted designed combustion chambers insure maximum performance. Standard (sea-level, pump gas, standard port timing) combustion chamber sizes indicated. Custom order combustion chambers as needed.

 

Your incredible lack of intelligence is AWESOME. You realize that a bike run in Alaska in the dead of winter, won't operate at the same temperature as a bike run at Glamis in the middle of the summer, right? How would they quote degree drops? I'm sure they've run them in a controlled environment to get the "70%" number. You must be smarter than all of the engineers that developed these products, right?

[SLORYDER]

You fail at life.

 

Here is a direct quote from pro-designs website:

 

 

Your incredible lack of intelligence is AWESOME. You realize that a bike run in Alaska in the dead of winter, won't operate at the same temperature as a bike run at Glamis in the middle of the summer, right? How would they quote degree drops? I'm sure they've run them in a controlled environment to get the "70%" number. You must be smarter than all of the engineers that developed these products, right?

 

You'd have to be an idiot to believe that the cool head can cause your bike to run 70% cooler.

 

Right up your alley.