Phelps Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 ON ALKY what are the signs and symptoms of lean/rich? my bike is crapping out on bottom to mid just like a gas bike would if it was fat. next question would i adjust the power jets in to lean it up at anything off idle, or would i drop the needle? i turned my power jets in about 10 rounds and it didn't seem like it help much at all. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted May 27, 2010 Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 ON ALKY what are the signs and symptoms of lean/rich? my bike is crapping out on bottom to mid just like a gas bike would if it was fat. next question would i adjust the power jets in to lean it up at anything off idle, or would i drop the needle? i turned my power jets in about 10 rounds and it didn't seem like it help much at all. thanks What carbs and whats your mains, dumps and pilots. what motor? Whats the plugs look like.. is the motor building heat? is it throwing a shower of fuel out the pipes?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrMeyer Posted May 27, 2010 Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 Another grassy field I would love to play in some day. Alky has always been on my brain sense I was young and always seeing the flames come out the exhaust at night racing the hills at Glamis. I have read and read. But still havent a clue. Maybe in a year or two ill try it out and see how i like it. But best of luck! I have heard great things from running Alky. But I just cant see Play duning on Alky and not getting the full use of it. Hope they guys on here can help you out. They have all helped me in the past with my probs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelps Posted May 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 What carbs and whats your mains, dumps and pilots. what motor? Whats the plugs look like.. is the motor building heat? is it throwing a shower of fuel out the pipes?? they are 35.5 mm Mikunis set up by FTZ and to be honest i have no idea what is in them. i just got them and was told the should be close. they were tuned for a stock stroke/bore cub motor. i am running a .020 over stock cylinder stock stroke bike. Vforce 3's and fmf fatty's. stock cdi and +10 timing. i had no idea i need to close the gap to.018 and change from a br8 to a 9. would that help a lot? also the plugs look brand new after 15 minutes of riding but yet i dont see any raw alky coming out of the pipes. maybe i just didnt run it long enoug for it to build up to the point of spewing out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted May 27, 2010 Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 You need to find out what size main, dump, pilot and needle you are using. "Should be close enough" will not help you tune your bike. The power jet has little to no effect on the idle or just off idle. What is your compression ratio at? What is your cranking compression? Back it down to 7 degrees, gap the plug at .018 as said. See how that work. 10 is a lot for an OEM cylinder for an alky newbie.... Is the motor ported, and if so...by whom? Alky will increase your performance from 5 to 10% on average, but there's a lot more to it than just opening up the carb. Fuel vent, did you gut and drill the gas cap? Do you have a pingel valve, bigger bowls, etc? Lots of questions, that should keep you busy for a while....lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelps Posted May 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 You need to find out what size main, dump, pilot and needle you are using. "Should be close enough" will not help you tune your bike. The power jet has little to no effect on the idle or just off idle. What is your compression ratio at? What is your cranking compression? Back it down to 7 degrees, gap the plug at .018 as said. See how that work. 10 is a lot for an OEM cylinder for an alky newbie.... Is the motor ported, and if so...by whom? Alky will increase your performance from 5 to 10% on average, but there's a lot more to it than just opening up the carb. Fuel vent, did you gut and drill the gas cap? Do you have a pingel valve, bigger bowls, etc? Lots of questions, that should keep you busy for a while....lol. stock head, stock port work, yes i gutted the cap and vent, lager fuel line, stock fuel valve stock bowls (which should be plenty enough for stock) tonight i will install the br9es's gaped at 0.18, back the timing down and do a compression check. however no one has seemed to answer my real question. what are the symptoms of lean/rich other than pouring raw alky out, or laying over and boom. that's pretty vague. if it's so rich that it beyond pouring out the back will it cutout,stumble, etc just like gasoline at partial throttle? the bike idles perfect, seems to run great once cleared out. the only time it acts up is right off idle (in gear) to about 3-4k right as it comes up on the pipe. had i been on gas i would have naturally dropped the needle down one and re check etc. anyways thanks for the help so far guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Madd Posted May 27, 2010 Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 The symptoms of alky running rich/lean is the same as gas. If its rich it will spit/sputter/choke if it is lean it will run hot and rev high /detonate/burn plug straps and not make power to the ground. Learn how to read the plugs. If they look like new after riding for a bit, it's at least a little rich at the particular throttle position and rpm you were riding at. Fuel won't draw through the powerjets until WOT for a few seconds (at least on mine). What type of powerjets do you have that have 10 turns of adjustment? Even if their Dave Moore's, I think they are all the way out at 6 turns, even if you can still turn them more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelps Posted May 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 The symptoms of alky running rich/lean is the same as gas. If its rich it will spit/sputter/choke if it is lean it will run hot and rev high /detonate/burn plug straps and not make power to the ground. Learn how to read the plugs. If they look like new after riding for a bit, it's at least a little rich at the particular throttle position and rpm you were riding at. Fuel won't draw through the powerjets until WOT for a few seconds (at least on mine). What type of powerjets do you have that have 10 turns of adjustment? Even if their Dave Moore's, I think they are all the way out at 6 turns, even if you can still turn them more. they were set up by ftz. they have a large knob on top with a pin on one side. it doesnt have clicks, or anything like that. it has about 1" of threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted May 27, 2010 Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 Each cylinder should be tuned separately, but...starting out the same is a good starting point. Get some white out or a sharpie marker and draw a line on top of the power jet adjustment. That way you KNOW how many turns you have. Each carb is different...my carbs will pull from the PJ as soon as I wick the throttle. On alky bikes, you can run MUCH more fuel than gas...and it will blow raw fuel out the pipe. It won't foul plugs like gas does...but it will run boggy and feel sluggish. It is normal to not have color on an alky plug after a single run...it takes a few runs to build heat. If the plugs are still wet after a few passes, slowly lean it down. When the bike pulls clean and feels strong, that's your safe point. You can lean it down from there at your own risk. I know they were setup by FTZ...but that doesn't tell us what size jets are in there. You need to know that...period. Not trying to be a dick or sound like an ass...but, if you took everyone's word on something being "close enough" you'd end up short on a lot of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNTS355 Posted May 27, 2010 Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 I know your not running Lectrons but this diagram of reading the spark plug may help. http://www.kawtriple.com/mraxl/carb/lectron/lectron_tuning.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted May 27, 2010 Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 I think you meant to post a different page...that one doesn't help with plugs at all. That would confuse the hell out of me if I didn't run Lectrons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelps Posted May 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 i will tear the carbs down and take pic's tonight. i don't get off until 6pm. this is the first set of flat slides i have ever owned or tuned. i was always 35mm airstrikers on gas and it was no biggie. i have studied the proper burn yesterday, but i doubt it's even close enough to to even worry about that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNTS355 Posted May 27, 2010 Report Share Posted May 27, 2010 I think you meant to post a different page...that one doesn't help with plugs at all. That would confuse the hell out of me if I didn't run Lectrons... Damn your right, I looked at the wrong one. I think I have another pic of an alcohol spark plug reading chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelps Posted May 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 ok so i took the slides out and went to drop the raise the clip and found that it's already at the top. the needles are 5fp17's. as far as the mains go i dont have a good enough selection of drill bits to tell you what they are. i do however have a drill bit that is just a tad smaller, but go figure it's not marked with the size! anyways would it be a wise idea to just drill a different set of jets with the smaller bit and just turn up the power jets? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 You need a machinist drill index set and a set of digital calipers to figure out the sizes. You'll probably need drill bits from .110 to .125. You'll have to figure out how big the dump tubes are...and how big the mains are from there. Since FTZ set them up...what did they say they should be at, etc? Sorry...I'm not a Mikuni guy for alky. I could get you close for Keihin and/or Lectron, but the principles are the same for all alky carbs to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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