electrical problem? cdi, coils? help a banshee newbie

[Coco Peru]

Hi everybody;

 

I just purchased a banshee a few weeks ago, it´s a 2004 and it is fully stock. The bike had low hours on it. I already took it for a couple or rides and I was very happy until friday when I was preparing it for the saturday ride. The bike started with no problem and I left it warming for a while, after a few minutes I tried to rev it up and the revs only increased a little bit and inmediatly the engine started making a noise like it was not carburating properly (like it was floding). I left it running for a while and nothing happened the problem continued.

 

I checked air filter and carb hoses and nothing. Then i checked the sparks and they where a little bit wet on the tips. I checked the cables and found that when the engine was left running at minimum revs there was a constant and strong spark from the cable to the sparkplug and as soon as i pushed the throttle this spark started to weaken and become somehow intermittent. I suppose this has to be a electrical problem so it is eather coils or to cdi? Has anyone had a similar problem?

 

I appreciate your help.

[bansheesandrider]

Hi everybody;

 

I just purchased a banshee a few weeks ago, it´s a 2004 and it is fully stock. The bike had low hours on it. I already took it for a couple or rides and I was very happy until friday when I was preparing it for the saturday ride. The bike started with no problem and I left it warming for a while, after a few minutes I tried to rev it up and the revs only increased a little bit and inmediatly the engine started making a noise like it was not carburating properly (like it was floding). I left it running for a while and nothing happened the problem continued.

 

I checked air filter and carb hoses and nothing. Then i checked the sparks and they where a little bit wet on the tips. I checked the cables and found that when the engine was left running at minimum revs there was a constant and strong spark from the cable to the sparkplug and as soon as i pushed the throttle this spark started to weaken and become somehow intermittent. I suppose this has to be a electrical problem so it is eather coils or to cdi? Has anyone had a similar problem?

 

I appreciate your help.

Did you have the park brake set when it was doing this? Banshees that are 97 models or newer have a rev limiter tied to the park brake that is supposed to keep you from riding the bike with the park brake set. There will probably be a lot of guys here telling you it is a TORS problem, but usually if you have a TORS problem the bike won't run at all. Hope this helps.

[fastbanshee8]

Try new spark plugs, and spark plug boots.

[SD1026]

did the spark weaken on both plugs or just pne? do you still have the tors on your bike ?

[pondtunes]

Sounds like a TORS system malfunction the TORS system is designed to cut the spark if the system detects the throttle lever isn't pressed and the slides are up. Or if the parking brake is on. They cause a lot of trouble and most people here will recommend you remove them completely. You can tell if your bike has them by looking at the carbs, they are two big bulky units mounted to the top of the carbs with wires coming out of them. If you do have the TORS system follow the wires to the carbs you should find a plug under the gas tank with black and white wires. Unplug this plug and see if your problem persists, If so you can ride with the TORS unplugged until you can get a TORS removal kit or a set of carbs with the TORS already removed.

[Coco Peru]

Thanks for your replies!

• 
   
  
• The parking brake was off all the time.
  
• The spark weakened on both plugs;
  
• I tried with new sparks, but with the same boots and the problem continued.
  
• It still has the TORS system, I assume, as it is completely stock. I have seen the units on top of the carbs, I will try unpluging the white/black cords to see if the problem persists. The bike does start at first kick, but it does not rev up, it tries but when I press the throttle it sounds like flooding.
  

 

The only thing different before this happened is that I pressure washed the bike and then changed the handlebars for new ones, maybe something happened to the TORS system during this or a cable could be too tight or something like that? I will hate if it is something that simple, I ruined a long weekend of riding because f this!

 

Anyways, thanks a lot for your help!

[bansheesandrider]

Like I said, here comes the guys with the TORS replys. The TORS system is a seperate system from the park brake rev limiter. Bikes that are 96 and older only had the TORS system and it is a stand alone system with its own control box under the left side of the fuel tank next to the coil. Bikes that are 97 and newer have the stand alone TORS system AND the PB rev limiter that is built into the CDI box. The PB rev limiter will cause problems because the plunger in the switch can stick even if the PB is released, or if the wire shorts to ground. The rev limiter works by intermittently cutting out spark whenever the wire is grounded. The TORS works by cutting out the spark altogether when it senses that the thumb throttle is in the idle position AND the carb slides are not in the idle position. Therefore a TORS problem will usually keep the bike from running at all, while a PB rev limiter problem will cause the bike to run crappy. I do recomend removing both items fom the bike, because the PB rev limiter can cause the problem you are having and the TORS can fail in the middle of nowhere. To remove the PB rev limiter, cut the wire in the bike harness at the CDI plug, on the early bikes it was a green/yellow wire, it may have changed on the later bikes. Make sure you cut it at the CDI plug on the bike side of the connector, not on the CDI box side of the connector, that way the connector will keep the wire from grounding out. To disable the TORS system, unplug the wire at the top of each carb, at the thumb throttle, and at the control box under the left side of the fuel tank next to the coil. To remove it properly, you will need a TORS eliminator kit, it will have new carb tops, a new throttle cable and new idle screws that you will neeed to drill and tap the carbs for. It will clean thngs up on the bike and make maintence easier.

[pondtunes]

Thanks for your replies!

• 
   
  
• The parking brake was off all the time.
  
• The spark weakened on both plugs;
  
• I tried with new sparks, but with the same boots and the problem continued.
  
• It still has the TORS system, I assume, as it is completely stock. I have seen the units on top of the carbs, I will try unpluging the white/black cords to see if the problem persists. The bike does start at first kick, but it does not rev up, it tries but when I press the throttle it sounds like flooding.
  

 

The only thing different before this happened is that I pressure washed the bike and then changed the handlebars for new ones, maybe something happened to the TORS system during this or a cable could be too tight or something like that? I will hate if it is something that simple, I ruined a long weekend of riding because f this!

 

Anyways, thanks a lot for your help!

 

 

OH! one more thing to try just because I ran into something kind of similar the other day.. The vent tube that goes to your gas tank mine was disconnected forever and when I had the plastics off I dug it out and reconnected it. Took off and down the trails after dark and after rounding a turn the bike stumbled and died. Didn't want to crank back up for a minute.. I had just relocated my electronics to the front of the bike so I feared something may have come unplugged. Tried after a minute or two and it fired up, as soon as I kicked into gear and gave her some gas she died again. I sat there in the dark trying to figure out what might have caused it, then I pulled the vent tube off of the top of the gas tank.. Kicked her a time or two and shee came right back to life, got back to the shop and ripped the tube the rest of the way out, it was caked with dirt and crap I assume not allowing the tank to suck in air creating a vacuum inside!

[bansheesandrider]

Thanks for your replies!

 

• The parking brake was off all the time.
  
• The spark weakened on both plugs;
  
• I tried with new sparks, but with the same boots and the problem continued.
  
• It still has the TORS system, I assume, as it is completely stock. I have seen the units on top of the carbs, I will try unpluging the white/black cords to see if the problem persists. The bike does start at first kick, but it does not rev up, it tries but when I press the throttle it sounds like flooding.
  

 

The only thing different before this happened is that I pressure washed the bike and then changed the handlebars for new ones, maybe something happened to the TORS system during this or a cable could be too tight or something like that? I will hate if it is something that simple, I ruined a long weekend of riding because f this!

 

Anyways, thanks a lot for your help!

Your problem could be caused by water in the Park Brake switch at the handle bars, the water is providing a path to ground for the rev limiter wire, you should be able to unplug the PB rev limiter wire at the bars and see if it fixes it.

[Coco Peru]

Wow, lot of usefull information!, thanks again

 

So, I will give it a try fist to the PB system and then eliminate both PB and TORS. Can anyone confirm the color of the wire to cut for a 2004 bike? I will try at the bars first to see if it is that. Also, can I run it forever with the TORS wires removed or I deffinetly will need the eliminator kit? any reference on where to buy one? I ask because I am not in the US ans it can take me sometime to bring one to South America

 

Pondtunes: Now that you mention; I also changed that vent tube that day; I changed it for a "short valve breather" just because it look nice, I didn´t tried pulling this one out but I remember removing the complete gas tank cap while running and the problem continued.

 

Thanks guys!

[blowit]

Hi everybody;

 

I just purchased a banshee a few weeks ago, it´s a 2004 and it is fully stock. The bike had low hours on it. I already took it for a couple or rides and I was very happy until friday when I was preparing it for the saturday ride. The bike started with no problem and I left it warming for a while, after a few minutes I tried to rev it up and the revs only increased a little bit and inmediatly the engine started making a noise like it was not carburating properly (like it was floding). I left it running for a while and nothing happened the problem continued.

 

I checked air filter and carb hoses and nothing. Then i checked the sparks and they where a little bit wet on the tips. I checked the cables and found that when the engine was left running at minimum revs there was a constant and strong spark from the cable to the sparkplug and as soon as i pushed the throttle this spark started to weaken and become somehow intermittent. I suppose this has to be a electrical problem so it is eather coils or to cdi? Has anyone had a similar problem?

 

I appreciate your help.

 

 

 

Parking Brake...

 

The PB has a rev limit system built into the CDI. There is a switch on the handle bar that will tell the CDI when it is on. If the PB is not adjusted properly, that switch will lie to the CDI. Simply adjust the PB or bypass the switch and that should solve your problem.

 

 

I should quantify my statements. The PB may be removed but that wiring still exists in the chassis. Would be wise to find it and delete it. The TORS system does NOT create a rev limit condition, it just kills the bike. Your symptoms are indicative of a PB circuit problem, not a TORS issue.

 

Mull Engineering

[fastquad02blaster]

Parking Brake...

 

The PB has a rev limit system built into the CDI. There is a switch on the handle bar that will tell the CDI when it is on. If the PB is not adjusted properly, that switch will lie to the CDI. Simply adjust the PB or bypass the switch and that should solve your problem.

 

 

I should quantify my statements. The PB may be removed but that wiring still exists in the chassis. Would be wise to find it and delete it. The TORS system does NOT create a rev limit condition, it just kills the bike. Your symptoms are indicative of a PB circuit problem, not a TORS issue.

 

Mull Engineering

 

plus one. Sounds like PB to me.

[bansheesandrider]

plus one. Sounds like PB to me.

This is plus 3, I actually brought this up n the very first reply and then further explained it in a subsequent post.

[Coco Peru]

This is plus 3, I actually brought this up n the very first reply and then further explained it in a subsequent post.

Plus 4! lol

Thanks everybody, I tried unplugging the PB cable and it worked, well first it didn´t but then I trien pressing the tip of the cable and it rev'ed up nomally.

Damn I should I´va asked here on friday and not ruin my riding weekend.

Anyway your help is very appreciated, I was about to order a CDI.

I will post some pics of my shee and come with more questions once I get more familiar with it.

I owe some beers here!

[bansheesandrider]

Plus 4! lol

Thanks everybody, I tried unplugging the PB cable and it worked, well first it didn´t but then I trien pressing the tip of the cable and it rev'ed up nomally.

Damn I should I´va asked here on friday and not ruin my riding weekend.

Anyway your help is very appreciated, I was about to order a CDI.

I will post some pics of my shee and come with more questions once I get more familiar with it.

I owe some beers here!

Glad you figured it out. You need to get a good service manual, most guys on here say to get the Clymers manual, they like it because it costs less than the OEM Yamaha manual. I have never used the Clymers, I use the Yamaha book. It cost more, but it has excellent pictures and diagrams of how all the cables and wiring are supposed to be routed, and list every possible spec and special tool needed to work on the bike. You can get versions of the factory book on CD Rom off of Ebay, just make sure you are getting a copy of the factory book. Some of them even have parts diagrams on them.

A good service manual will have a wiring diagram so you can figure out what wires to get rid of.