REEDS THREAD open discusion why? what kind? whats "best"

[camatv]

here is another thread i'd figure i'd start acording to things i have read about in the forums as of recentley.. SOOOO lets gett eh debate started..

 

VFORCE 3'S are the BEST reed out there hands down..

 

RAD valves ONLY work with stock carbs..

 

different type's of reeds on stock cages wont help me at all.

 

my 38mm pwk's make my reeds work so hard they will break.

 

how often should you check your reeds?

 

my drag bike will only run good with VFORCE.

 

these are JUST statements i have read in differnt forms from time to time lets discuss it. and from time to time i will drop in and possibly state what i have learned and of course it will be my OPINION!!!!

[shanYE west]

My opinions..

 

VF are the best... Are they needed? not always.. A VF will perform just as well as other cage/reed combo's on the bottom.. but I dont think it justifies the price tag when other reeds/cages will give you the same performance gains for less money.

 

VF reeds have been proven to offer the best flow of any cage on the market in high RPM.. So it is the best choice for a drag build in my opinon.

 

I have personal experience that the RADs didn't work well with larger carbs/intakes. The way the neck is on the cage chokes them down and generates ALOT of turbulence. I switched to stock cages with power reeds and it was night and day difference. I have heard that they make different cages to work better with the larger carbs.. but I have yet to see one.

 

I check reeds once a year for wear. Sooner if the bike is having issues.

 

Just my opinions..

[Bansh-eman]

When I first bought my bike, I purchased a Boysen RAD valve. Everything was bone stock minus pipes. I installed the RAD valve, and I noticed a much nicer throttle response. I then removed the airbox lid and rejetted and it got a little more crisp. On a stock bik I could tell a pretty good improvment. As for numbers I have none. All of mine are in the pants changes.

 

After I rebuilt my motor I made a TON of changes all at once. One fo them being VF3. I can not say how much it made a differance becasue it came in at the same time as many other changes. One thing I have noticed is my reeds still look brand new. The reeds on my RAD valve started to look a little beatup with only 1 1/2 seasons on them.

 

If I had my dad's old flow bench when we raced I could do a flow meter test and give numbers but he sold that thing years ago.

[shanYE west]

after we switched from the RAD's to stock cages and power reeds.. we eventually put a set of VF2's in.. We didn't notice a seat of the pants power increase. This was on a "dune" port stock stroke motor. So this goes back to why I said the VF are not always needed in every application.

 

I will agree though that the rad valve was the best setup I used on my stock port/stroke motor. would probably work well with ported setups also as long as the stock intakes are used. I dont think i've seen a better matched intake track yet.

[bigborebanshee]

V-force 2 were the best IMO.(I prefer steel screws)

 

Rad valves appear to be more of a torque oriented configuration whereas V-force are designed for max flow.

 

I replace reeds ever season on engines that are ridden regularly.New reeds make the throttle crispy

[AlkyGirl]

When I first got my banshe I put Rad's in it seemd to make a bit of difference in the top end and overall power. Of course when I build a bigger motor I swtiched to VF3's and I have 39 Pwk's. They dont seem to be over worked at all. I am a fan of the VF3's on any build.

[Snopczynski]

I have seen gains with low and mid carbon tech bolt on petals with stock cages that made more hp and torque on the dyno than the same bike with vf3's. This was on a low-mid built banshee, not a drag bike, or a dune bike. Im only a fan of the VF3 on mid-top built bikes (Dune, Drag). Otherwise I will take the carbon techs any day for more low and mid hp and torque.

[Ieat4strokes]

My opinions..

 

VF are the best... Are they needed? not always.. A VF will perform just as well as other cage/reed combo's on the bottom.. but I dont think it justifies the price tag when other reeds/cages will give you the same performance gains for less money.

 

VF reeds have been proven to offer the best flow of any cage on the market in high RPM.. So it is the best choice for a drag build in my opinon.

 

I have personal experience that the RADs didn't work well with larger carbs/intakes. The way the neck is on the cage chokes them down and generates ALOT of turbulence. I switched to stock cages with power reeds and it was night and day difference. I have heard that they make different cages to work better with the larger carbs.. but I have yet to see one.

 

I check reeds once a year for wear. Sooner if the bike is having issues.

 

Just my opinions..

 

Ive noticed as well that the "neck" on the VF3 are narrowed down especially when using bigger carbs.... The "stuffers" they make are supposed to open that up, neone have experience with them? been looking at em for a while.

[Bansh-eman]

I have the Cascade "stuffers" but like with everything else, they came with a few additional mods at the same time so I can't say they did or didn't change anything.

[T_Shee]

ive been running the chariot performance cages for a year now. i think they use boyesen reeds. they have held up really well and i noticed a pretty big bottom end difference over stock cages with boyesen carbon fiber reeds. i ride almost all trails and a little bit of open sand, these reeds have been a great fit for me.

 

i have a friend with rad valves and since he went to 30 mm carbs his bike has never run right. i thought it was just not getting the carbs dialed right, you guys think it could be the reeds?

[papa_smurf49319]

Put a set of boyeasen dual stage power reeds with stock cages on a stock engine with stock pipes (lol i know) didnt notice a damn bit of difference. Now i have vforce 3's on the latest build, but did everything at once. Talking with a few builders it sounds like vforce is the concensis!

 

 

 

Cody

[camatv]

GREAT!!. this is good first hand experience!!. here's my kinda "take on it"

 

he rad valves i like a LOT and of course due to their design they will really ONLY work with STOCK intakes. they actually use the intake and should have been built as a one piece deal and had the intake like a small connector like all the other styles of rad valves..

 

they do have MAJOR flaws in them that i feel is from casting? there is a huge mismatch and flat lip right at the tip of the reed opening you can smooth it out but the reeds are not long enough to make the transition smooth and even. the intake side of them can be worked over quite a bit. in my opinion they make a very responsive and even power delevery overall.. i'd really like to get a set of longer reeds for the cage but not sure wha that would do to the reeds life.

 

i am going to try and get an old set back that i tried to make work with the larger carbs.. i chopped a LOT of them out and do some lil testing with them.

 

i LOVE v-3's they bring great money even used.. i love to buy a bike with them on it and pull them out to sell.

 

i have used mostly stock reed cages with smoothing and port work and 2 stae reeds in my smaller cc bikes. the v-3's do work good but for the price i just cannot see the increase to HP worth it..

 

i dont have any experience with the chariots but they sure look nice..

 

i wouldnt worry about the steel screws in the v-2's the v-3's dont have any issues of flying apart from falling apart that i have heard of?

 

and all intakes and reed's are a lil mismatched. and should be matched if installing new..

 

 

 

anybody ever use any of the "other type" of reed cages and styles out there?

[AKheathen]

well, ok.......as we begin to discuss reeds, it always comes to peak hp production and "throttle response" now, lets stand back and re-define throttle response. it seems to most (from what i read into how it's described) as a crisp-"how fast will it respond to stabbing the throttle" rating, rather than a precise "will it give me the same amount of power i am demanding?" By definition, the throttle response is just that- the response to a set amount of throttle demand. let me give an example.....

say, you are in the woods, or loading up on a trailer, (or any similar circumstance) and you want about 10% power to get over a rut or start up the ramp, and you have 2 reeds to choose (boysen power reeds and boysen pro reeds) now, the pro, with the stiffer pedals can give you a crisper response to upper throttle ranges at any rpm, but at lower demands, it's not as smooth and tends to "jump" ahead to higher output with rpms. on the other hand the power reeds has softer pedals and provide a smoother and more controllable response to all throttle ranges. so, both of the 2 reeds are similar, and put out about the same peak power, loke you are running on a dyno or racing, but actually differ allot in real-world performance. (not trying to bash racing) so which one do you want to be running at that time?

this example is a penciled down differential, but it's the same deal through the whole throttle range and in many different situations. to me, reed choice is about performance profile to fit the application first, and peak power delivery at said rpm second.

lets move on to some of the original topics.......

no, vf3's are not the best hands down, it all depends on application

different reeds on stock cages DO make a huge difference and usually a great option for builds up to 4mill, and the stock cages can be ported for a little difference in performance.

38mm is not really what is working the reeds so hard, it's the high rpm and application that calls for 38mm carbs, and this depends on what reeds/pedals you are running

checking reeds depends on what reeds and operating conditions, but generally, yearly inspection.....

your drag bike will run good with vforce, but the need depends on how big of a build it is (7mill+, IMO)

 

 

the rad valve- yes it is a great option for performance on stock intakes as they are designed for 90% of the market, which is mild builds, much like t-6's. playing with the flow and porting on stock cages and the rad valve is a nice little project that you can't really screw up unless you take too much out where the pedal seals. you will gain a little incite and experience in analysis as well as a little perspective, and possible performance gains. if there is longer pedals for it, I'm sure they have an improved stiffener to maintain reliability, or the product probably wouldn't go far. now, the chariot reed cages are a redesigned stock cage that focuses on working better with the 2 stage boysen reeds and there is much debate between that and the vforce as which performs better in stock to 4mill builds, including drag, so i will leave it at that and just let you know where they stand, and they are not sub-vforce and not just for trail/mx type builds. well, that's it for now, and this is just how i view the subject and my 2-cents worth.....

[shanYE west]

Ive noticed as well that the "neck" on the VF3 are narrowed down especially when using bigger carbs.... The "stuffers" they make are supposed to open that up, neone have experience with them? been looking at em for a while.

 

The cascade stuffers work great with intakes that use the square opening that was matched to the VF2 cages..

Some intakes use the round opening that matches the VF3's original stuffer. Like the white knuckle and Vito's bullseye intakes. I wouldn't use the cascade stuffers in them situations. Always match the intake track up as much as possible.

[shanYE west]

well, ok.......as we begin to discuss reeds, it always comes to peak hp production and "throttle response" now, lets stand back and re-define throttle response. it seems to most (from what i read into how it's described) as a crisp-"how fast will it respond to stabbing the throttle" rating, rather than a precise "will it give me the same amount of power i am demanding?" By definition, the throttle response is just that- the response to a set amount of throttle demand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Throttle response is going to be mainly created by intake velocity... With poor velocity, the air cant pick up a good fuel charge at low RPM and will generate a lean condition.. and cause hesitation (poor throttle response). The example your using is merely showing a change in the power curve. I've never rode a bike with poor throttle response in the upper RPM range unless it was jetted incorrectly. Too large of carbs also contribute to this problem.

 

 

I do beleive that the VF reeds are the best.. Why? because they have the broadest performance range. I just think that for smaller dune/trail builds your wasting your money because can get close to the same performance for less money.

Its been proven to make more HP on a 350cc drag build over other reed systems. So its not just 7mil and up. If your building a drag bike.. its a no brainer. VF has been proven time and time again. There is a reason that 99% of all drag builds use VF cages. Go to a track and take a look around.. I doubt you'll find many people using something else. I have chariot cages in a 10mil right now. It dont think they're better yet. The bike is still being tuned. Once its done I'm going to try a dyno comparison.