banshee_phil Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 hi there, long story short...i dated a girl once, he ex-bf was jealous...he drained my coolant on the banshee and i didnt notice. long story short, it went boom in one cylinder and destroyed the crank. so now im in the process of rebuilding the motor. ....(another long story short...dont take your motor to c-tech performance in grand rapids, Michigan...ruined the one good cylinder and then ruined the cylinder that was resleeved and refused to fix it.) but with all that aside, i am now in the market to fix her before spring. I have been eyeballing the 4mm hotrod long rod kits...and i like the idea of it. the kit comes with everything needed to do a complete rebuild. my question is what do i have to do to the cylinder porting and case porting? i have read that the lower area of the port needs to be ported another 2mm down...is that correct? and nothing is needed to the upper area of the port? also i have read on here about case porting...what exactly is that and can i do it or does the machinist porting the cylinders need to do that? and how much material do you cut away? i am also buying an adjustable timing plate...what degrees should i set it at? i will also be looking at buying some pipes and silencers soon...in your opinion should i go with FMF, Toomey, or DC Alien? also, im guessing the stock 26mm carbs wont be enough...what size would be sufficient? 33mm? 35mm? thanks for all your time and input...i just want to be able to keep up with my current gf's stock honda 450R and be able to keep up with the dust from my buddy's built honda 450R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbcmudtruck Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 4mil long rod crank with max load bearing and weld $500 795 wiesco pistons $165 Dune/Play port $350 Cool head with domes cut for 4mil $250 Gasket set to put it all back together $45 Cases port matched $100 Total: $1310 That would be your basic must have list to build a 4mil. The list doesn't stop there however if you don't have: A good clutch, FAST clutch $100 Billet basket $160 New inner and outer hubs $55 Pancake bearing $50 Additional total: $365 That would get you close, but the list doesn't stop there if you don't have: Pipes, (depending on what your looking for) $250-$500 Intakes $100 Carbs $300 Filters $85 Additional total: $485 + pipes Grand total $2160 + pipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodie Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 first off no one will give out port numbers to anyone. This is what separates jim-bobs porting service aside from f.a.s.t or herrjuggsracing. so if you needing porting done talk to one of the site sponsers they will help you out. as for the timing plate alota people run +4 but talk to your motor builder and they can help you out there And then for the pipes thats on what kinda riding you do. Since you listed fmf toomy and dmc then I'm going to guess you ride in the woods for the majority. I wouldn't just limit to those 3 pipes I would also consider the pro circuit platinums. And then bbcmudtruck has already priced everything for you. Oh and a couple bolt ons will beat your buddys stock 450. And after you port it and stroke it. Depending on how "built" the other 450 is you will be able to hold your own there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee_phil Posted January 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 here is what the kit has in it.... Brand New Yamaha Banshee 4mm stroker engine package. In this kit you will receive: 1 Hotrods 4mm stroker crankshaft 2 top end bearings 2 795 series Wiseco stroker pistons (includes rings, wrist pins, and c-clips) 1 Complete oil seal kit 1 Complete gasket kit 1 4mm spacer plate $670.00 i will be running a stock head...that is why i asked about cylinder porting. I was reading the post "spacer vs NO for 4mill" and they talked about having to port the lower portion of the port 2mill because of running the spacer plate. i plan on buying clutch and basket...mine is toast and new carbs and pipes my main question was about case porting and cylinder porting. my engine builder is mainly a 4stroke guy...builds race engines i just wanted to get it right the first time as far as porting is concerned as for riding...yes mostly woods and some track and fingers crossed i am hoping that it will at least keep up if not run better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbcmudtruck Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Don't run a spacer plate. Also, if your builder is not familiar with 2 stroke porting, goes with out saying, don't take your motor to him for porting! You can assemble the motor with basic hand tools and a manual. Leave the port work to a competent builder if you want to do it right the first time. As far as case porting goes, I would recomend it. I would also suggest you call a builder and discuss your goals with him. Call Jeff for your motor work, 1-785-364-5325. This is his website. http://www.farmandsa...s.com/index.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKheathen Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 speaking of builder, that's who you should really talk to. whoever is going to port it is going to need to know what kind of ridding, and what kind of power you need, and will need to know all the other mods, and/or suggest what will run best with the porting, including pipes, reeds, carbs, etc, you can get ideas on how the different bolt-ons will perform, but ultimately, the builder will know best how/what will work together best for you. as for my suggestions, get your head rechambered for the stroke to the size the builder suggests. pro citrcuits will be awesome with a woods/trail port, boysen reeds, and 28-30mm carbs. and, i would also suggest wildcard as my favorite builder, but you should check out the different builders on the site and pick the one you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodie Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 what budget are you looking at? And for your motor builder I wouldn't listen to a 4stroke builder for tips on 2stroke power. If its a friend and you dont want to tell him you are going to someone else thats up to you. But porting needs to be left to the pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee_phil Posted January 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 well i dont know if he builds 2strokes or not....i do know that he builds 4stroke ATVs and sprint car motor and drag car motors. He used to build snomobiles...which most used to be 2stroke right? anyway all i was having him do was bore my cylinders. he has a flow bench and said he could port my cylinders if i wanted to. like i said idk if he does 2stroke (i havent talked to him much but i will) but he has build some pretty bad 4stoke drag bikes. he is well known in the area for that. he also invented some kind of chain tensioner for QT motors (winged sprint car i think). he has been doing motor work all his life and i trust him with it. but as far as porting...i need to ask him if he does it much on 2strokes...if not ill have to send the cylinders off to someone. random memory...he also built the motor for the fastest honda...what was it...umm...650 (maybe 750?) motorcyle form the 70's i think...built it in the 90's sometime i think...the guy talks so fast its hard to understand him...but he has proof of it all. but anyways... as for my budget...im not sure. i planned on the stroker kit for now just to get motor back together... goal is to buy pipes, carbs, clutch, and adj timing plate by middle of march. i would guess in the $1500 range...its not a professional bike and i dont race it. so im not afraid to run used pipes or used carbs. i will have $670 in motor internals according to bbcmudtruck... $450 for cylinder and case port $100 clutch $300 carbs $250-350 pipes on ebay $100 reeds so i guess that puts up around the $2k mark for now ill prob just do stroker kit, cylinder and case port, clutch, and pipes ($1500-ish) and do carbs and intake by march Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee_phil Posted January 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 question.... if i opt to just go ahead and buy the cool head and 4mm domes...i wouldnt need to port the cylinder because i wouldnt be running the spacer plate correct? but i would theoretically want to port them anyways purely for performance and not functionality right? i am considering a new head more and more as i think about it. guy said he would charge $100 to port and polish cylinders and put on the flow bench to match they flow the same he is cutting me a little break on labor because of my previous sobbing story about having sent the cylinders off earlier and having to buy two more cylinders. plus he builds several of my buddy's 4stroke drag and GNCC bikes. he guarantees all his work so he says... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbcmudtruck Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 $100 dollar port job makes me wanna cringe.. I think you'll get what you pay for. Just call a builder and talk it over. You may end up leaving it a stock stroke motor with a mx port job! Either way I wouldn't buy anything until you get a good clear direction for your build. I would use one builder through out the project. I wouldn't have one guy bore it, one guy port it and order my parts from another guy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewski Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 4mil long rod crank with max load bearing and weld $500 795 wiesco pistons $165 Dune/Play port $350 Cool head with domes cut for 4mil $250 Gasket set to put it all back together $45 Cases port matched $100 Total: $1310 That would be your basic must have list to build a 4mil. The list doesn't stop there however if you don't have: A good clutch, FAST clutch $100 Billet basket $160 New inner and outer hubs $55 Pancake bearing $50 Additional total: $365 That would get you close, but the list doesn't stop there if you don't have: Pipes, (depending on what your looking for) $250-$500 Intakes $100 Carbs $300 Filters $85 Additional total: $485 + pipes Grand total $2160 + pipes. That's a very good quote for a complete 4mm ported build......It cost me the exact same for my motor give or take a few bucks. But at least It's done right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee_phil Posted January 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 $100 dollar port job makes me wanna cringe.. I think you'll get what you pay for. Just call a builder and talk it over. You may end up leaving it a stock stroke motor with a mx port job! Either way I wouldn't buy anything until you get a good clear direction for your build. I would use one builder through out the project. I wouldn't have one guy bore it, one guy port it and order my parts from another guy.. that is exactly why i got on here! $100 sounded too good to be true...and i know all about getting what you pay for (trust me) thats why i havent bought anything yet and havent done anything to the cylinders...they are at 64.5mm and need to be pushed to 65mm...and ported well now that i have a good idea of what i need and a rough cost, all i need to do is contact a builder and get it started! thanks for all the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR101 Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 that is exactly why i got on here! $100 sounded too good to be true...and i know all about getting what you pay for (trust me) thats why i havent bought anything yet and havent done anything to the cylinders...they are at 64.5mm and need to be pushed to 65mm...and ported well now that i have a good idea of what i need and a rough cost, all i need to do is contact a builder and get it started! thanks for all the input! good luck with the build these 2 guys are the goods for parts and porting herrjugsracing.com << ported my dune +4mill farmandsandtoys.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooker82 Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Porting on a 2 stroke vs. a 4 stroke are completly different. On a 4 stroke your just smothing the castings out to improve flow. On a 2 stroke your rasing the ports, and changing the angle of the ports. When you change the port hight and shape your changing how the engine breaths. Porting on a 2 stroke controls when the exhaust goes out, and the fresh air and fuel come in. It is like putting a cam shaft in a 4 stroke. I wouldn't trust my cylinders to a guy that does general 2 stroke porting, let alone one that doesnt have any experiance. Take them to some one who has there reputation built on building banshee engines. Just cause you have ported a chain saw doesnt mean you know how to port banshee cylinders. You could do the 4 mill, run a cool head with stroker domes, and leave the cylinders not ported. You will be missing out big time though. It will run and you might notice a little gain in power. It wont be near as fast as a stock stroke ported banshee though. josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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