Snopczynski Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 I guess my point was, if it was the king, one of the raptors would be the one closest to knocking it off the podium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coronakidd Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 I guess my point was, if it was the king, one of the raptors would be the one closest to knocking it off the podium. i have had a 660raptor built for dragin was built by craycraft on alky it was a fast 4stroke and run a 4.3 or a 4.4 . My 4mill cub shee runs real strong havent had it to the track yet.Its on gas it was built by k&t. My 18mill D.M. built by k&t pulls like a train and theres not been a 4stroke(quad motor)run with it or even close.It runs 3.4 or 3.5 on motor no juice couple of guys at the track are running r1 and r6 motor quads that get close the only thing that will outrun a shee is another she theres a turbo nitrous zx11 motored rail thats pretty da_n fast i need some spray im not the fast and dont claim to be but theres no way a 4pokes going outrun a shee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroking Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) i theres no way a 4pokes going outrun a shee that is according to the size of the banshee......of corse a 18mil dm is going to run away from one. but the smaller ones have to be more careful around here. i ran 7.1 et at the track yesterday with my stockbore trx450,with 110 fuel,+4 swinger bike NO,ALCOHOL,NO OVERRIDE,NO WHEELIE BAR,if i added those and threw a big bore cylinder on there im sure it could run in the 6.8 6.7 range or lower and ive seen cub motors run 7.0/6.9's so like i said smaller ones better be carful down here Edited September 15, 2009 by stroking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coronakidd Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 displacement 660 or 700 cc (4stroke) to 350cc(2stroke) displacement how much motor size must the shee be compared to yes you must build one hell of a 4 stoke to run with a shee no matter how much you build a 4stroke (cc to cc) the shee is faster. even when giving up 150 to 250 cc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubitza123 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Well i know of a 421 cub running a low 6.4 around here on gas with stock frame and not lightened. Also know of another one its a 392 or 421 running 10.02 in the 1/4 and 6.1's in the 1/8 on stock frames. So a 450 doesn't come close to one thats in tune and setup properly. Fastest 450 i have seen is a yfz450 with NOS running 6'2s i believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigborebanshee Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 If you want to compare apples to apples then a Dyno is the only true test and "race" necessary. There are too many variables to consider when assessing who "the king of drags are" Unless you have 2 identically setup machines with a robot rider,results will sometime favor a machine that would not produce the same results otherwise.Or maybe if you had 2 dynos linked that could calculate power and speed with a centrally controlled throttle.then that would be accurate. Basically you can build a machine to holy hell,but if its not set-up well or lacks a competent rider,results will vary Thats why scientifically the banshee is still "king" and The only accurate gauge is a dynomometer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I couldn't disagree more. A dyno is good for tuning a certain bike on a certain day, that's it. There's nothing regulated about a dyno. You can make it read any number you want. Some measure at the sprocket, some measure at the rear wheel, some people run lower gears to get a higher number, you can play with the correction factor... A dyno is best for a single bike on a single day to tune, that's it. The track is where it's at... One of our members has it in their sig. When a dyno passes me on the track, then I'll worry about Dyno numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Well crank dynos work better than anything else, and day to day runs do effect numbers. A good operator can get the right correction factors in though, and get good results on a consistent basis. Comparing parts has to be done under identical conditions for a reputable comparison though. I feel the biggest mistake people make is jet a bike to what they consider dead on with the dyno, I haven't realy seen anything come of the dyno jetted right for actual load conditions. You can only really jet the top end also, most guys dont have an engine brake so setting up the needl eor pilot circuit proves to be very hard on the dyno. Two bikes head to head can only be told on the strip though. We have a 60hp ported 4 mill that keeps up with my 67hp ported 350 in a drag race, and it neck to neck at the end. Alot of it lies in the power delivery, chassis setup, and rider ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigborebanshee Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Two bikes head to head can only be told on the strip though. We have a 60hp ported 4 mill that keeps up with my 67hp ported 350 in a drag race, and it neck to neck at the end. Alot of it lies in the power delivery, chassis setup, and rider ability. Thats why an engines true capabilities can only be accurately measured on a dyno,just as rider ability can only be measured in a drag race. If your asking if the banshee "engine" is still king of drags,then Yes,CC for CC there is no 4 stroke that can be built more powerful in a naturally aspirated application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Thats why an engines true capabilities can only be accurately measured on a dyno,just as rider ability can only be measured in a drag race. If your asking if the banshee "engine" is still king of drags,then Yes,CC for CC there is no 4 stroke that can be built more powerful in a naturally aspirated application. I disagree, respectfully, for a couple reasons. 1. Just because an engine makes a ton of HP on a dyno, doesn't translate into good numbers at the track. And vice versa...a lesser motor can run faster at the track if setup correctly. A dyno does not take into account chassis setup, gearing, etc. There is more to measuring a bike's performance in a race than just the rider. 2. If take my bike to a dyno here in MI, say it reads 120 HP. You take your bike to a dyno by your hourse, it reads 100 HP. Does that mean mine will beat yours? Nope. 3. If we both took our bikes to the same dyno, ran them back to back in the same conditions...it still doesn't mean the bike with the higher HP will win on the track? No. Again, setup, weight AND rider ability determine that. Throw into that mix track conditions, temp and surface can change throughout the day, let alone week after week.... So...I stand by my theory a dyno is ONLY a tool to measure a single engine's performance with different mods on that given day. Comparing Motor A to Motor B on the same dyno, same day, same conditions doesn't mean anything, it's only a number which doesn't transulate to anything on the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigborebanshee Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I disagree, respectfully, for a couple reasons. 1. Just because an engine makes a ton of HP on a dyno, doesn't translate into good numbers at the track. And vice versa...a lesser motor can run faster at the track if setup correctly. A dyno does not take into account chassis setup, gearing, etc. There is more to measuring a bike's performance in a race than just the rider. 3. If we both took our bikes to the same dyno, ran them back to back in the same conditions...it still doesn't mean the bike with the higher HP will win on the track? No. Again, setup, weight AND rider ability determine that. Throw into that mix track conditions, temp and surface can change throughout the day, let alone week after week.... You totally lost me and i no longer have any idea where your coming from? I thought the question was is the banshee still king of drags?Maybe the question should have been is the banshee engine still king of drags? Rider and tuner = 99% of performance factor.I don't care how wide or narrow of a powerband you have,there is a setup that will work with the considering weight,traction,suspension etc. If the engine makes big numbers,it can be setup to go fast.It might be one dimensional and only do one thing good,but if thats what it was intended for so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Thats why an engines true capabilities can only be accurately measured on a dyno,just as rider ability can only be measured in a drag race. If your asking if the banshee "engine" is still king of drags,then Yes,CC for CC there is no 4 stroke that can be built more powerful in a naturally aspirated application. Problem is, people dont look at the overall picture. It's not a hp to hp reading that will tell you what motor is even faster. Like I said, my motor makes more hp, his motor makes more torque. As far as rider ability, he and I swapped bikes with the same results. So still even there. When you use a dyno, you have to be able to read what its telling you, you cant just look at hp numbers and say "well this one is more, this motor is better". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigborebanshee Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I disagree, respectfully, for a couple reasons. 1. Just because an engine makes a ton of HP on a dyno, doesn't translate into good numbers at the track. And vice versa...a lesser motor can run faster at the track if setup correctly. A dyno does not take into account chassis setup, gearing, etc. There is more to measuring a bike's performance in a race than just the rider. 3. If we both took our bikes to the same dyno, ran them back to back in the same conditions...it still doesn't mean the bike with the higher HP will win on the track? No. Again, setup, weight AND rider ability determine that. Throw into that mix track conditions, temp and surface can change throughout the day, let alone week after week.... You totally lost me and i no longer have any idea where your coming from? I thought the question was is the banshee still king of drags?Maybe the question should have been is the banshee engine still king of drags?It seems this has turned into a banshee vs banshee. Rider and tuner = 99% of performance factor.I don't care how wide or narrow of a powerband you have,there is a setup that will work with the considering weight,traction,suspension etc. If the engine makes big numbers,it can be setup to go fast.It might be one dimensional and only do one thing good,but if thats what it was intended for so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Thats why an engines true capabilities can only be accurately measured on a dyno This is where I'm coming from. An engines true capability means nothing on a dyno. It's true capability is measured at the track....and the engine is only one piece of the puzzle. Saying an engines true capability can only be accurately measured on a dyno is false IMO. And I gave reasons why it's false. Sorry if I lost you in my reasoning. And cc for cc, a two stroke will always be faster...unless the 4 stroke crowd pulls something out of left field that revolutionizes engines. But...it's been over 100 years. So..I don't see that happening any time soon even with the technology we have today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigborebanshee Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 So still even there. When you use a dyno, you have to be able to read what its telling you, you cant just look at hp numbers and say "well this one is more, this motor is better". Exactly,you can use the power spread on the dynograph to figure how the gearing ,traction and weight factor will affect how the quad is setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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