Cheetah Pipes

[RIPPEN]

I would love to come out to Oregon one day for these climbs.. Actually if I had a choice of any place to go thats where would be it.. Hell Id even try out my 4mill stock cylinder CPI setup out there...

 

Don't act like you two are the only ones that climb steep hill shoots.. Oregon isn't the only place that has them..

Oh and if you seriously think that stock cylinders are not capable of 80hp you need to do some research...

 

RIPPEN

[PACIFIC NW BANSHEE]

I would love to come out to Oregon one day for these climbs.. Actually if I had a choice of any place to go thats where would be it.. Hell Id even try out my 4mill stock cylinder CPI setup out there...

 

Don't act like you two are the only ones that climb steep hill shoots.. Oregon isn't the only place that has them..

Oh and if you seriously think that stock cylinders are not capable of 80hp you need to do some research...

 

RIPPEN

 

dont get me wrong you would do great on that bike out here and your wright there are more than us two i know of of least few other asses out here .Do i think 80 hp can be done sure if you dont like reliable i have had heavily modified stock cylinders heavy race port and plenty of tig welding resleeved ran 72.5 pistons and cut t3s old school yes reliable no but was the only way to go and i assume you mean with 4 mil crank good luck ps on your way out stop at st anthonys in idaho worth it for sure

[shanYE west]

The 80hp motor I was refering to was a 65mm bore with 4mil crank. Dune ported by passion, no welding. Very reliable. I've seen a dune ported 4mil by FAST.. thing flat out rips and is very reliable also.. 80hp from a dune port is fairly common and they are VERY realiable motors. Both motors have well over 3 seasons on them.

[PACIFIC NW BANSHEE]

The 80hp motor I was refering to was a 65mm bore with 4mil crank. Dune ported by passion, no welding. Very reliable. I've seen a dune ported 4mil by FAST.. thing flat out rips and is very reliable also.. 80hp from a dune port is fairly common and they are VERY realiable motors. Both motors have well over 3 seasons on them.

 

Yeah that makes more sense at first thought you were talkin 80hp with stock crank .I guess i just push stock parts to there limits.

[Wiz]

back in the day b 4 quads were even thought of,they used to change pipes on dirt bikes like the honda elsinores,cr 125 for instance.you could get a high pipe a low pipe or a mid rise pipe to change the power band of the engine.between the pipe changes you could have lower end grunt,mid range power or more top end power from the change of your pipe.i go back to these days and rode and owned these old school bikes.i have owned many kawi h2 tripple 2 stroke 750's hi 500's yamaha rd's etc.i also have alot of drag racing experience 1/4 mi and 1/8 mile my last drag bike ran 5.20 at a 149 mph in the 1/8 mile and 7.6 sec in the quarter what banshee does that none.anyway my point here is i agree with alot of what every one is saying here,alot of good points have been made for the big rpm motors and for the guy thats trying to make usable power.i can see taking a cub motor and making usable power and the extra cooling the cub cylinders provide among other reasons.im always reading about how people are looking for more hp,im one of them but at the same time i have a trail quad and its a 4 stroke great for tight trail rides and race Chase through the woods.my banshee being way faster than my z400 i dont think my banshee can fuck with my z 400 in its habitat where it shines and the z wont fuck with the banshee in a drag race.bottom line here is nobody is correct or wrong cause there is a million ways to skin a cat and something that work for one person may not work for the other.thats why we have options and and able to make our own decisions.and nobody here has figured out what works for them with out trial and error.i think more people need to be more opened minded even though you have been through all the trial and error,no matter what one may know theres always something to learn and new ways to do things,i have found that the smartest one can learn something from the dumbest one on more than on e occasion.

 

Very well said.... :thumbsup: this was the point I have been trying to get across in my own twisted sort of way i guess.

 

Dajogjr, it is clear you know your shit and I give you mad props for this and I appolgize if I offended you in any way along with any others. I came on here to learn from others and share the knowledge that I have along with the love of the sport.

 

Bottom line is we all have our beliefs and we all believe strongly in the set-ups we have run becasue of results we have seen and felt in our own bikes. Am I rite yes in my situation it fits me in your situation you are dead on correct.

 

I had a PV motor my 535 it was a cheetah and I never liked it hence why i do not have it anymore I had continous probs with the power valves, I believe they did not work well with the porting, pipes and the carboration, I could never get it to run the way I wanted it to, this of course was a trinity motor (I am not a fan of trinity). Since that time I have steered away from PV motors and found that non-PV motors with the right set-up work very well for ME and the places I ride.

 

I have been around Banshees since about 89 and spent 5 years at a Yamaha dealership I have spent more time working on banshees than most 5 people combined granted this was alot of dealership work but we did our share of builds also. I learned from the problems that people had or what they wanted out of there bike by alot of other peoples trial and error with alot of different combonations.

 

Pacific, you have one of lewie's small block set-ups? If and when i ever build another motor it will be one of those. Lewie is a stand up guy I know him pretty well and I believe he is one of the best in this busniess, his cranks are 2nd to none along with his detail in his work. His cylinders I beleive are as good as the CP stuff in performance and offer some better features than CP, but that comes at a price...

[jbooker82]

You are right I dont have a cub. I have listened to creditable people that have and DO run cub cylinders. I have never herd them recomend T5's or any other general pipe on a cub.

 

I ran my 66mm 4mill drag ported cylinders on t5's. The T5's sucked compaired to the CPI's.

[dajogejr]

NOTE TO ALL SITE SUPPORTERS AND ENGINE BUILDERS:

 

Please stop wasting time porting and drawing more power out of stock cylinders.

When a customer calls you up, sell them a cub or a twister cylinder right off the bat..then build a package around that.

 

It is the better way to go...I have seen the err in my ways...

[Handyman]

YOu know I would like to hear what some of the builders on this site have to say...I think they would have the best amount knowledge of what runs best with what set up...

[PACIFIC NW BANSHEE]

NOTE TO ALL SITE SUPPORTERS AND ENGINE BUILDERS:

 

Please stop wasting time porting and drawing more power out of stock cylinders.

When a customer calls you up, sell them a cub or a twister cylinder right off the bat..then build a package around that.

 

It is the better way to go...I have seen the err in my ways...

 

 

What come on you know as well as other stock has it limitations .

[dajogejr]

Just a little morning sarcasm before my morning coffee.

 

Yes...I know they have their limitations. And since they've been around for 20-30 years (including the RZ/RD heritage) they've had a lot more time to extract the most out of them.

 

I guess my final point is this. If you ride in a place or local where your bike is constantly churning upper RPMs, you can not only use but harness that power and get it to the ground....then yes, these aftermarket cylinders are the key.

 

I'd have a hard time telling someone to build a cub motor, cheetah motor, twister motor, etc., when they poke around tight trails, around the farm...or just general duning and telling them...well, you can get that motor to run real real well and make a lot of HP, or...you could suffocate it with smaller pipes, less timing, less compression, smaller carbs....to suit your needs.

 

This is not the drag racer in me speaking...

This is a practical, best bang for your buck person speaking.

 

Cubs are not for everyone. Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it's a good idea or the best way.

 

I rode tight trails, open trails, fire roads, mud bogs, etc., for a LONG time before I got hooked on crack...or, drag racing as we call it.

 

My whole point all along has been about neutering a motor that is meant to breathe....

While I'm certainly not going to speak for Calvin....if you ask him when he designed the cylinder (ANY of his cylinders) if he had a two into one carb setup or trail pipes in mind...I think his answer would be no.

[PACIFIC NW BANSHEE]

Just a little morning sarcasm before my morning coffee.

 

Yes...I know they have their limitations. And since they've been around for 20-30 years (including the RZ/RD heritage) they've had a lot more time to extract the most out of them.

 

I guess my final point is this. If you ride in a place or local where your bike is constantly churning upper RPMs, you can not only use but harness that power and get it to the ground....then yes, these aftermarket cylinders are the key.

 

I'd have a hard time telling someone to build a cub motor, cheetah motor, twister motor, etc., when they poke around tight trails, around the farm...or just general duning and telling them...well, you can get that motor to run real real well and make a lot of HP, or...you could suffocate it with smaller pipes, less timing, less compression, smaller carbs....to suit your needs.

 

This is not the drag racer in me speaking...

This is a practical, best bang for your buck person speaking.

 

Cubs are not for everyone. Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it's a good idea or the best way.

 

I rode tight trails, open trails, fire roads, mud bogs, etc., for a LONG time before I got hooked on crack...or, drag racing as we call it.

 

My whole point all along has been about neutering a motor that is meant to breathe....

While I'm certainly not going to speak for Calvin....if you ask him when he designed the cylinder (ANY of his cylinders) if he had a two into one carb setup or trail pipes in mind...I think his answer would be no.

 

I completely agree with you build the bike for what you ride .and my setup works great .

[Wiz]

Just a little morning sarcasm before my morning coffee.

 

Yes...I know they have their limitations. And since they've been around for 20-30 years (including the RZ/RD heritage) they've had a lot more time to extract the most out of them.

 

I guess my final point is this. If you ride in a place or local where your bike is constantly churning upper RPMs, you can not only use but harness that power and get it to the ground....then yes, these aftermarket cylinders are the key.

 

I'd have a hard time telling someone to build a cub motor, cheetah motor, twister motor, etc., when they poke around tight trails, around the farm...or just general duning and telling them...well, you can get that motor to run real real well and make a lot of HP, or...you could suffocate it with smaller pipes, less timing, less compression, smaller carbs....to suit your needs.

 

This is not the drag racer in me speaking...

This is a practical, best bang for your buck person speaking.

 

Cubs are not for everyone. Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it's a good idea or the best way.

 

I rode tight trails, open trails, fire roads, mud bogs, etc., for a LONG time before I got hooked on crack...or, drag racing as we call it.

 

My whole point all along has been about neutering a motor that is meant to breathe....

While I'm certainly not going to speak for Calvin....if you ask him when he designed the cylinder (ANY of his cylinders) if he had a two into one carb setup or trail pipes in mind...I think his answer would be no.

 

I would not recomend cub or any other aftermarket cyclinders to anyone on a farm or genral slow duning but apparently you keep missing the point?

 

Let me break this down a little simpler for you. we ride in the deep sand that takes HP to move and lots of HP to move good, when we drop down into tree holes or shots, alot of the time there is not bottom so you are slidding you bike 200 to 500 feet down the side of a dune that is pushing a 40 degree angle with nothing below you but brush no flat spot to turn around or stop. You have to be able to get on the high side of the bike and get the bike sideways while using your breaks and your clutch/throtthel to just get the tire to spi just enough to loop it around a tree. once you have done all of that it is time to put the power down, normally you are in and out of the throttle 5-6 times wheels in the air while you weave your way out of these holes. There are no easy ways out it is the way you go in or a rope.

 

Now I have ran stock cyclinder bikes with good luck mostly, the problems you run into with your 80ph stocker is there is no bottom end power, and no reliability. Sure somebody said on here 80 hp bike that were lasting 3 seasons how much hard dune ridding were done in those 3 seasons?

 

on a stock cylinder motor once you start out of one of these holes and have to burp the throttle you cannot get it back up on the pipe without feathering the clutch, they are not true dune ported pull in the midrange and bottom stock cylinder motors. When you get aggressive with the clutch you start bearking baskets, clutches, chains, sprockets and transmissions. Same problem with a Cub motor with CPI's or Shearers all the power in the world on the top end at 10,000 RPM but once you get out of that power and have to get back into it you are done.... Turn around and hope or get a Rope....With the set-up the smart guys are running this is not a problem. You can get out of the throttle and wick back into it and bang, rite back on the pipe. Not all of this comes from the pipe of course, Alot of this comes from not running a lightend flywheel, not alot of timming and alot of compression.

 

If any of you make it out to Oregon bring your CPI or Shearer bike I have a built 4mil stock cylinder banshee and I have my 4/7 mill cub set up to pull you can ride all three in the places I show you to go and you tell me wich works better.....I have been there allready on the end of a rope I know the answer...

[dajogejr]

normally you are in and out of the throttle 5-6 times wheels in the air while you weave your way out of these holes. There are no easy ways out it is the way you go in or a rope.

 

I stopped reading after this. This is my point exactly. If you can't see my point of it is easier to get a more linear spread of power out of the stockers for THIS TYPE of riding than a cub....you obviously have not ridden on a set done up by the right builder, or you don't know how to tune/setup a bike or engine.

 

Since you mentioned Dan @ Patriot and Cam @ Redline, I'm leaning towards the latter.

Both of these gentlemen do fine work... Dan specifically when I was having dome/Oring issues on my 10 mil.

 

 

My WHOLE point is what good is all that power if you can't use it...or it is difficult to use. I rode my 4 mil cub on gas with stock carbs and T5s. With a lot of compression and timing...while I was waiting on bigger carbs and pipes.

Yes, it was detuned. it still hit hard and had a WAY less linear power curve than several nicely ported stockers I've ridden.

I've seen videos from Snop who rides by you guys. I understand what kind of riding you do.

 

If you still think a PT pipe'd single carb cub is your ticket, knock yourself out.

 

Hell...why bother. a stock stroke cub with stock carbs and stock pipes will make about 70 HP give or take with some timing and compression. Why waste all that money in carbs and pipes.

[hercalmighty]

If your breaking all of that crap just by feathering the clutch you need to look into why thats happening. I have beat the living shit out of my bikes clutching it out of stuff and I NEVER broke any of the stuff you said you broke. Do you know how many times I have to blip the throttle and feather the clutch through the woods in a 2 hour harescramble? Probably 10 times as many as you do in a whole weekend. And I tell yeah in 17 years of racing I have never had a DNF because of a mechincal failure.

[dajogejr]

rite back on the pipe. Not all of this comes from the pipe of course, Alot of this comes from not running a lightend flywheel, not alot of timming and alot of compression.

 

I'm sorry to say I read the rest of this. And you proved my point further. You need to learn to setup a bike if you can't get better mid and low out of a 70 to 80 HP motor, stock cylinder.

 

I agree on not running a lightened flywheel, slow speed riding needs more rotating mass so the revs don't fall off...but more timing and more compression give you more torque and mid range...which....ding ding ding...get you on the pipe faster.

 

I would rather have a smoother transition to getting on the pipe than a punch in the stomach like you're talking about....and I'm sure that smoother transition wouldn't break as many clutch parts.... Maybe that's just me thinking out loud.

 

I honestly don't think there is anything else you can post that would change my opinion of you don't know what you're talking about.... but I'm sure you'll try.