dajogejr Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 4 mil cub, 180 plus PSI, cleaned up, race fuel, 9 degrees of timing. I'm not arguing that a cub will make better power at 4K RPM than a set of stockers...hell, my weedeater does that. What I'm saying is it is easier to get linear power and a better overall curve out of stockers than cut down, deck, detune, etc. a cub. The erratic line is the dyno pull I made with a bad flywheel...that's why it's all over the place. Hit like a truck from about 6300 RPM to 9500RPM or so. And this run...by the way...was with stock carbs and T5 pipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokespirit Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 4 mil cub, 180 plus PSI, cleaned up, race fuel, 9 degrees of timing.I'm not arguing that a cub will make better power at 4K RPM than a set of stockers...hell, my weedeater does that. What I'm saying is it is easier to get linear power and a better overall curve out of stockers than cut down, deck, detune, etc. a cub. The erratic line is the dyno pull I made with a bad flywheel...that's why it's all over the place. Hit like a truck from about 6300 RPM to 9500RPM or so. And this run...by the way...was with stock carbs and T5 pipes. Dajoger, thats a good number damn, with t5s!! Do YOU agree with me that a cub produce more bottom end then a stock cylinder stock stroke?? I guess the hit is so hard that you don't "feel" the power down under... The cubs do have bottom end, what I don't like is the fact that out of probably 10 people 2 said NO BOTTOM, thats not true!! But I agree that you can get a more usable and broader curve out of a stocker!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokespirit Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 dajogejr what are the exhaust and transfer durations for a 4mm cub (68mm) straight outa the box? thanks, mark Main exhaust 197, main transfer 130... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Marginally better. Within a few HP...but my point all along is it's the difference between opening your garage door vs. an airplane hanger door when the power comes on. That same setup, although I never dyno'd it....probably made 8 to 10HP more on 35's and RDZ/Shearer inframes but it moved the power up 1000 to 1500 RPM when it hit and gained 1000 to 1500 RPM overrev...or peak revs. I too know how to setup and tune a bike...but it's just too much work to make a cylinder designed to breath and rev out vs. a set of stockers....for a lot cheaper. Just like when people say I'm going to put a 2 into one exhaust, 1 into two carb, spend thousands in suspension, etc., to MX race my banshee. Why? Buy a 4 stroke, save the money, headaches, etc. 250Rs ruled the MX quad scene until the latest 4 strokes came out. And they were only made for 4 years...86-89. 14 or so years later, you don't see many racing MX. Not because you can't find parts, etc., it's because there is a better and MORE PRACTICAL alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 heres a 4mil dune port... with 34pj's and shearers. Not too far off. Just needs some more tuning. I'd like to see it with CPI's then tinker with some timing and compression. You have to compare apples to apples here.. You can't compare a 4mil cub to a stock stroke stock cylinder.. your giving up 70cc's. I bet if you looked at 4mil 65bore cub.. it might be a different story all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Madd Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 how did i miss this one!? im gonna add a few points to this... 1. cubs are NOT trail friendly. 2. cubs were designed to have drag port specs, nothing else. 3. if you want to detune your cub, why not just build a stock cylinder motor with the power curve you want. 4. decking cubs is fuckin stupid. 5. running anything but shearers, cpi, or rockets on a cub will severely affect the overall performance of the motor. 6. pacificnorthwestbanshee - youre a clown. even if you were making good points, who would ever know with all that gibberish posting you do. try to sound at least a little educated. try using some punctuation and paragraphs to separate thoughts and ideas. and unless you know the poster personally i suggest you not call them out on something, such as calling daj a bench racer. everyone on this site knows he is not that. it just shows everyone how stupid you are. no one will listen to you because youre that guy who decided to call a well known racer out with a weak argument about cubs. dumb. 7. wiz - why run decked cubs? waste of money. why not build a strong dune motor that makes power more towards the middle of the rpm range instead of your cub which will come on around 6000 rpm. that doesnt make sense. cubs like big carbs and drag pipes. end of story. tryin to argue otherwise is ignorant. they werent designed to be ridden in the trails and such. they were designed for budget minded drag racers. 8. im a pimp and RIPPEN is my bitch!! I shit you not, I was just about to say "Where is loco in all of this" before I got to this page. :yelrotflmao: :yelrotflmao: :yelrotflmao: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooker82 Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Nice Guys glad some one is bringing some proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swrbansheeboy Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 i've read this entire thread now and honestly i feel cheeted out of an hour i could have spent doing something else more productive but since i've wasted that much of my time why not waste some of yours.... it was stated by someone (i'm too lazy to go back) that "this is what started it as i see it" and i have to dissagree. this post was made... t-5's on my cub when i play ride for where we play in the deep sand and trees the drag pipes (cpi, shear, etc.) don't work well. I have a set of CPI big bore out frames that I put on once every so often but they have no silencers and are to friggin loud.....If all you are going to do is run the open sand and nothing technical where you are looking for more bottom to mid range power the CPI of shearer pipes are the way to go. CPI quality control sucks ass.... fine and dandy, just one guy posting his opinion. to bad it was followed up by this... If CPI's and Shearer's dont work well for the type of riding your doing then you clearly have the wrong cylinder sitting on top of your cases. basicly saying "hey, i dont give a fuck what you think or what your opinion is about your set up that works for you. your a dumbass for buying a cub since you are doing something other than what i think you should be doing even though it's working for you" wiz and booker exchange several posts then the rest of the "hq posse" jump in to bash the new guy because he doesnt share the same views as those with 50,000 post's. you guys can say what you want about what started this whole bitch fest but it probably would have been a little different had this... If CPI's and Shearer's dont work well for the type of riding your doing then you clearly have the wrong cylinder sitting on top of your cases. been substituted for this... If CPI's and Shearer's dont work well for the type of riding your doing then what do you think the t5's have over the CPI's/Shearer's? could have added something such as "i've ran the t5's and had no luck with them, they seem to fall off on the top when i want the power to come on and thats where i find the cpi/shearer to preform better" blah blah blah and so on but no, it was much easier to take the low road and be a condecending/ opinionated asshole. way to set the bar there "banshee hq premium proud member" i think 8 of the 10 pages here could have been avoided if the people who "think" they know something quit trying to force the ones who dissagree with there way of thinking to see things the way they "think" others should see them.... this pretty much summed it up for me. from the man so many on here know and respect for how knowledgable he is... I've seen videos from Snop who rides by you guys. I understand what kind of riding you do. you've seen videos so you understand? dude, i've seen videos of asphalt drags but i dont understand what it's like to dump the clutch on a stretched rigid with a 120 hp engine and 8 foot wheelie bar. i've seen videos of nhra drags but i dont understand what it's like to pull the trigger on a 7 second quarter mile monster. i've seen videos with 4 chicks on one guy but dont understand what it's like to be with less than 6 chicks...lmao to me the bottom line is theres a lot of jibber-jabber goin on here and unless you own/have owned a cub and ran multiple pipe set ups on it then your opinion is null and void. unless you have actualy ridden where the referance is made then stfu. i dont care how many videos you've watched on youtube of treeshots on the oregon dunes, unless you've actualy ridden there (especialy with the set up's in question) you cant relate so dont try and compare your riding area to another one. regardless if you live in hicktown u.s.a. back east and you guys have 200 square feet of sand with a jump smack dab in the middle of it that you can catch 2 feet of air on you do not I REPEAT DO NOT know what is out here on the left coast just as much as most of us have no idea what type of riding you right coasters have.... if your just making a post based on "what you read" or "what you heard" then do everyone a favor and say you have no fucking idea what your talking about. you have no actual knowledge of how it's set up or how it runs. what was done to it or what problems it's had. unless your capable of answering in depth questions about the set up thats the same as the one in topic at hand then you have no buisiness posting anything other than your "opinion" because you dont know shit about it other than "you heard from this guy one time about his sisters boyfriends bike that did ......" to get somewhat back on topic... the question was Anybody ever run T-5's or FMF's on their Cheetah? I have Cpi's on my 4mill and was thinking about trying something different. since smuttdawg apparently doesn't care what the answer was then i guess this thread is strictly for pounding your chest and bitching about the new guy's opinion now..... fwiw, i would much rather have a choked down (or as you guy's who know everything would say "neutered,castrated,less-of-a-man and any other drivitive of something less than manly") cub engine thats capable of making 100 hp any time i choose to take the "restrictive" pipes off and let the beast breath than a stock cylinder bike that will be lucky to make 80 hp on it's best day for the same amount of cash. ( dont let em fool ya kids, pick your favorite flavor of engine builder and get a quote for a stock cylinder stroker motor making a certified 80 hp. v.s. a cub making 80 out of the box. you'll be suprised how close they are...) oh, and p.s.... DYNO NUMBERS ARE BULLSHIT!!!! no dyno is the same, unless you see two bikes run back to back on the same dyno with no changes to the settings then it's all bullshit and not acurate. there is no industry standard for dyno set up so you are basing your opinion on the parameters set by the guy running the software on the dyno. unless all the setting's for the run are posted so you can compare tire sizes and whatnot then you have no idea if your comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges. dyno numbers are generaly just a tool for guys to beat there chest and a. try and say there bike is better than yours or b. used as tool to try and prove that there way of thinking is correct (as in this thread) unless said person actualy shows up and does that 300 foot pass or pulls out of that treeshot then it's all just window dressing. i have a little stock stroke ported 350 bike but i could photoshop you a dyno sheet that shows it making 180 hp at 4500 rpm if i wanted to... not saying anyones dyno sheets are b.s. just saying the proof is in the pudding so to speak... oh, and p.p.s... go back and look at the sigs of all these guys saying cpi/shearer pipes are the only pipes to run on a cub. then think about what kind of riding you do. if your bike resembles the ones provided in there sigs then you might take there advice, otherwise you might just broaden your horizons.... 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jbooker82 Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 You just dont get it. The guy was complaining that he cant deal with the mid range loss caused by running CPI or Shearer pipes, but yet he is running a drag ported cylinder that doesnt have a mid range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 I guess since I have a drag bike in my sig I've never owned multiple cub motors with different combo settings, never owned or rode a trail bike, never rode dunes, mud pits, sand pits, whooped trails, etc. I guess since I've never been to Oregon, they have the 100% most unique trails in the whole country, make that world. They have terrain and obstacles that can be found NO WHERE else on planet earth, and for that...their setups need to be equally as unique. Since I own and ride a drag bike, and have a ton of posts...it must be the only thing I know about. Only drag bikes...only on flat ground. I'm sorry to have wasted my thoughts and experiences with all of you....clearly, these unique individuals in the Northwest have the most challenging and different terrain that can be found anywhere in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYUK Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 I guess since I have a drag bike in my sig I've never owned multiple cub motors with different combo settings, never owned or rode a trail bike, never rode dunes, mud pits, sand pits, whooped trails, etc. I guess since I've never been to Oregon, they have the 100% most unique trails in the whole country, make that world. They have terrain and obstacles that can be found NO WHERE else on planet earth, and for that...their setups need to be equally as unique. Since I own and ride a drag bike, and have a ton of posts...it must be the only thing I know about. Only drag bikes...only on flat ground. I'm sorry to have wasted my thoughts and experiences with all of you....clearly, these unique individuals in the Northwest have the most challenging and different terrain that can be found anywhere in the world. naaa, we have sand and pine trees in jersey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 I'm going to make a sig with every bike I've built other then my ONE drag bike... That would be a whole lot of scrolling!! lol I guess he feels important now that he threw in his penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 i've read this entire thread now and honestly i feel cheeted out of an hour i could have spent doing something else more productive but since i've wasted that much of my time why not waste some of yours.... it was stated by someone (i'm too lazy to go back) that "this is what started it as i see it" and i have to dissagree. this post was made... fine and dandy, just one guy posting his opinion. to bad it was followed up by this... basicly saying "hey, i dont give a fuck what you think or what your opinion is about your set up that works for you. your a dumbass for buying a cub since you are doing something other than what i think you should be doing even though it's working for you" wiz and booker exchange several posts then the rest of the "hq posse" jump in to bash the new guy because he doesnt share the same views as those with 50,000 post's. you guys can say what you want about what started this whole bitch fest but it probably would have been a little different had this... been substituted for this... could have added something such as "i've ran the t5's and had no luck with them, they seem to fall off on the top when i want the power to come on and thats where i find the cpi/shearer to preform better" blah blah blah and so on but no, it was much easier to take the low road and be a condecending/ opinionated asshole. way to set the bar there "banshee hq premium proud member" i think 8 of the 10 pages here could have been avoided if the people who "think" they know something quit trying to force the ones who dissagree with there way of thinking to see things the way they "think" others should see them.... this pretty much summed it up for me. from the man so many on here know and respect for how knowledgable he is... you've seen videos so you understand? dude, i've seen videos of asphalt drags but i dont understand what it's like to dump the clutch on a stretched rigid with a 120 hp engine and 8 foot wheelie bar. i've seen videos of nhra drags but i dont understand what it's like to pull the trigger on a 7 second quarter mile monster. i've seen videos with 4 chicks on one guy but dont understand what it's like to be with less than 6 chicks...lmao to me the bottom line is theres a lot of jibber-jabber goin on here and unless you own/have owned a cub and ran multiple pipe set ups on it then your opinion is null and void. unless you have actualy ridden where the referance is made then stfu. i dont care how many videos you've watched on youtube of treeshots on the oregon dunes, unless you've actualy ridden there (especialy with the set up's in question) you cant relate so dont try and compare your riding area to another one. regardless if you live in hicktown u.s.a. back east and you guys have 200 square feet of sand with a jump smack dab in the middle of it that you can catch 2 feet of air on you do not I REPEAT DO NOT know what is out here on the left coast just as much as most of us have no idea what type of riding you right coasters have.... if your just making a post based on "what you read" or "what you heard" then do everyone a favor and say you have no fucking idea what your talking about. you have no actual knowledge of how it's set up or how it runs. what was done to it or what problems it's had. unless your capable of answering in depth questions about the set up thats the same as the one in topic at hand then you have no buisiness posting anything other than your "opinion" because you dont know shit about it other than "you heard from this guy one time about his sisters boyfriends bike that did ......" to get somewhat back on topic... the question was since smuttdawg apparently doesn't care what the answer was then i guess this thread is strictly for pounding your chest and bitching about the new guy's opinion now..... fwiw, i would much rather have a choked down (or as you guy's who know everything would say "neutered,castrated,less-of-a-man and any other drivitive of something less than manly") cub engine thats capable of making 100 hp any time i choose to take the "restrictive" pipes off and let the beast breath than a stock cylinder bike that will be lucky to make 80 hp on it's best day for the same amount of cash. ( dont let em fool ya kids, pick your favorite flavor of engine builder and get a quote for a stock cylinder stroker motor making a certified 80 hp. v.s. a cub making 80 out of the box. you'll be suprised how close they are...) oh, and p.s.... DYNO NUMBERS ARE BULLSHIT!!!! no dyno is the same, unless you see two bikes run back to back on the same dyno with no changes to the settings then it's all bullshit and not acurate. there is no industry standard for dyno set up so you are basing your opinion on the parameters set by the guy running the software on the dyno. unless all the setting's for the run are posted so you can compare tire sizes and whatnot then you have no idea if your comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges. dyno numbers are generaly just a tool for guys to beat there chest and a. try and say there bike is better than yours or b. used as tool to try and prove that there way of thinking is correct (as in this thread) unless said person actualy shows up and does that 300 foot pass or pulls out of that treeshot then it's all just window dressing. i have a little stock stroke ported 350 bike but i could photoshop you a dyno sheet that shows it making 180 hp at 4500 rpm if i wanted to... not saying anyones dyno sheets are b.s. just saying the proof is in the pudding so to speak... oh, and p.p.s... go back and look at the sigs of all these guys saying cpi/shearer pipes are the only pipes to run on a cub. then think about what kind of riding you do. if your bike resembles the ones provided in there sigs then you might take there advice, otherwise you might just broaden your horizons.... so basically youre saying blah blah blaaah.. blah blah blah? oh and blah blah blahahaha. blah? ok well i get it now. 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c zappy r Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Oh why can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtfreak Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 i've read this entire thread now and honestly i feel cheeted out of an hour i could have spent doing something else more productive but since i've wasted that much of my time why not waste some of yours.... it was stated by someone (i'm too lazy to go back) that "this is what started it as i see it" and i have to dissagree. this post was made... fine and dandy, just one guy posting his opinion. to bad it was followed up by this... basicly saying "hey, i dont give a fuck what you think or what your opinion is about your set up that works for you. your a dumbass for buying a cub since you are doing something other than what i think you should be doing even though it's working for you" wiz and booker exchange several posts then the rest of the "hq posse" jump in to bash the new guy because he doesnt share the same views as those with 50,000 post's. you guys can say what you want about what started this whole bitch fest but it probably would have been a little different had this... been substituted for this... could have added something such as "i've ran the t5's and had no luck with them, they seem to fall off on the top when i want the power to come on and thats where i find the cpi/shearer to preform better" blah blah blah and so on but no, it was much easier to take the low road and be a condecending/ opinionated asshole. way to set the bar there "banshee hq premium proud member" i think 8 of the 10 pages here could have been avoided if the people who "think" they know something quit trying to force the ones who dissagree with there way of thinking to see things the way they "think" others should see them.... this pretty much summed it up for me. from the man so many on here know and respect for how knowledgable he is... you've seen videos so you understand? dude, i've seen videos of asphalt drags but i dont understand what it's like to dump the clutch on a stretched rigid with a 120 hp engine and 8 foot wheelie bar. i've seen videos of nhra drags but i dont understand what it's like to pull the trigger on a 7 second quarter mile monster. i've seen videos with 4 chicks on one guy but dont understand what it's like to be with less than 6 chicks...lmao to me the bottom line is theres a lot of jibber-jabber goin on here and unless you own/have owned a cub and ran multiple pipe set ups on it then your opinion is null and void. unless you have actualy ridden where the referance is made then stfu. i dont care how many videos you've watched on youtube of treeshots on the oregon dunes, unless you've actualy ridden there (especialy with the set up's in question) you cant relate so dont try and compare your riding area to another one. regardless if you live in hicktown u.s.a. back east and you guys have 200 square feet of sand with a jump smack dab in the middle of it that you can catch 2 feet of air on you do not I REPEAT DO NOT know what is out here on the left coast just as much as most of us have no idea what type of riding you right coasters have.... if your just making a post based on "what you read" or "what you heard" then do everyone a favor and say you have no fucking idea what your talking about. you have no actual knowledge of how it's set up or how it runs. what was done to it or what problems it's had. unless your capable of answering in depth questions about the set up thats the same as the one in topic at hand then you have no buisiness posting anything other than your "opinion" because you dont know shit about it other than "you heard from this guy one time about his sisters boyfriends bike that did ......" to get somewhat back on topic... the question was since smuttdawg apparently doesn't care what the answer was then i guess this thread is strictly for pounding your chest and bitching about the new guy's opinion now..... fwiw, i would much rather have a choked down (or as you guy's who know everything would say "neutered,castrated,less-of-a-man and any other drivitive of something less than manly") cub engine thats capable of making 100 hp any time i choose to take the "restrictive" pipes off and let the beast breath than a stock cylinder bike that will be lucky to make 80 hp on it's best day for the same amount of cash. ( dont let em fool ya kids, pick your favorite flavor of engine builder and get a quote for a stock cylinder stroker motor making a certified 80 hp. v.s. a cub making 80 out of the box. you'll be suprised how close they are...) oh, and p.s.... DYNO NUMBERS ARE BULLSHIT!!!! no dyno is the same, unless you see two bikes run back to back on the same dyno with no changes to the settings then it's all bullshit and not acurate. there is no industry standard for dyno set up so you are basing your opinion on the parameters set by the guy running the software on the dyno. unless all the setting's for the run are posted so you can compare tire sizes and whatnot then you have no idea if your comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges. dyno numbers are generaly just a tool for guys to beat there chest and a. try and say there bike is better than yours or b. used as tool to try and prove that there way of thinking is correct (as in this thread) unless said person actualy shows up and does that 300 foot pass or pulls out of that treeshot then it's all just window dressing. i have a little stock stroke ported 350 bike but i could photoshop you a dyno sheet that shows it making 180 hp at 4500 rpm if i wanted to... not saying anyones dyno sheets are b.s. just saying the proof is in the pudding so to speak... oh, and p.p.s... go back and look at the sigs of all these guys saying cpi/shearer pipes are the only pipes to run on a cub. then think about what kind of riding you do. if your bike resembles the ones provided in there sigs then you might take there advice, otherwise you might just broaden your horizons.... i believe this is one of the stupidest comments i have read yet on the entire site.everyone i know including myself reasons for using a dyno is to TUNE.no matter if one dyno run compares to a different dyno run.so i guess everyone that has used a dyno or has their set up dynoed has wasted their money and time.this also means a dyno isn't a good method for tuning.ok i run my bike on a dyno and i get horse power and torque readings.then i adjust some things and make another dyno run.the second dyno run produces more torque and more horse power.alright i guess this is the time where i would beat on my chest because i have established that my bike is making more horse power and torque, but it don't mean nothing that i have a higher number right.if it didnt mean anything why did i get a lower number b 4 adjustments.every one that has a dyno get rid of it ,there inaccurate and the DYNO NUMBERS ARE BULLSHIT!!!! this is fucked up to me because i was always under the impression that a dyno was to tune and to put you wheels in a environment perfect for tuning purposes.not to mention that is kinds hard to actually see what your bike is doing at 100mph and right then to see where you may need to make changes. now as far as rest of this post/argument goes.if the set up work for someone fine but if it is working so well why the fuck are they asking people here for their opinion just for you to put down the answers they were asking for.from what i read and i read it all.every comment made was opinions and what people have tried and what they thought its purpose was intended to do.they were given a opinion then would say you don't know what the fuck your talking about,well if the people here don't know what the fuck their talking about, why would they ask for their opinion in the first place. everyone has a opinion this is one of mine. 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